that some wheat had gone in that had not been docked at all, and that a week or two afterwards I heard four or five farmers complaining of the amount docked, and they asked my opinion about it. 1210. Do you refer to dirty wheat or lightness of wheat?— More to dirty wheat. It is in barley, smut, and foreign matter. In the lightness of wheat there is a standard. only when stacking wheat like that we would have to use a proper tester. 1211. In regard to the stacks which you referred to in three of four places, being removed, was that done for the purpose of sampling or when taking the wheat away to the depots?— The contractor told me he was told to break it down in two or three places so that there would be no chance of its being kept there too long. 1212. Was it understood this year that the wheat was not going to be kept too long at the depot or sites but would be sent to the depots early?— It was the same thing every year. We never took any chances at all. We had to cover our stacks and we had to build the stacks to stand the test. 1213. This time then it was the exceptional circumstances. Previously you had to undertake the shipping; you had to wait for ships. On this occasion there were depots and sites for the reception of wheat. Therefore, it was different from previously?— In regard to the bulk of the wheat I handled I do no think I got three telegrams during the whole of the time telling me to get it down to the sheds. 1214. That was the intention?— They cannot shift it. The State Railways are not capable of shifting the wheat sufficiently fast 1214. That was the intention?-They cannot shift it.The State railways are not capable of shifting the wheat sufficiently fast. . 1215. You were surprised, or perhaps you were aware of it, but it was understood this year all the wheat would be shifted from the sidings by about April?— No; not being in the business I only heard the contractors' remarks that they would have to get the wheat away early. 1216. in such circumstances, if there had to be depots such as is proposed for the purpose of holding the wheat, do you think Dreyfus & Co, would take the same care in stacking when they had no responsibility, and when the wheat was supposed to be sent to the depots earlier than under their own contract?— It is hard to say what a firm would do under the contract existing. 1217. Therefore, you cannot strike a comparison?— Certainly not. 1218. You made a statement that neglect had been shown, and I want to show that it was so?—In 1916 we were distinctly informed that no wheat would be held at certain stations and non-stacking stations, and my instructions were to build the stacks at the non-stacking stations as well as those at the stacking stations. 1219. Have you heard complaints from the farmers of the way the wheat was handled in your district this year compared with other years?—That is a hard question to answer. I am out of the business now, but I have heard it all the same. 1220. Has it been beneficial this year, or detrimental?— That I could not say; I have heard remarks both ways. Some say they carried out their duties well, and others say they did not like the way it was done. 1221. You stated that you did not think it was necessary to have an intermediate man. Do you think the Pool should take the entire control?— I am sure it should. They are bound to have some men there who are competent to manage their own firms, and therefore they would be competent to manage for the Government and control the Pool in the country. 1222. As one engaged in the wheat trade so long, I suppose you are fully conversant under what terms and conditions the wheat is to be handled this year, as far as payment is concerned?—I have not seen it. 1223. Are you aware that one farthing a bushel is set down as the profit for the acquiring agent this year?—I was not aware of it. I was only aware of what the country agents were paid. 1224. In your opinion that one farthing would be satisfactory to the farmers?—I am looking at it in this way, and I cannot make this as a positive statement; I am giving it from observation. I saw ten clerks in Louis Dreyfus' office in 1916, and I was informed they handled one and a quarter million bags of wheat. I do not think any other organisation in existence could do that pro rata, therefore I am not surprised at the profit being one farthing. But one man might make a farthing and another a penny. 1225. I say that the profit is set down at a farthing. The system is making up the price is so much for handling, so much for sub-agents, and so on, and they put the profit down at a farthing. If the other handling charges are correct that farthing is correct?—Certainly. 1226. Do you think they could be better men to do it than are doing it this year?—I think the bulk of the men in our organisation are still with the Government . I have seen them in this country. 1227. At the depots?—Inspecting. 1228. You said you did not think there would be any saving this year over previous years?—To the farmers? 1229. Yes?—I do not think so. 1230. That is owing to the fact that the Pool has to carry the responsibility?—Yes. 1231. They have to provide roofing, dunnage, sheds; to pay for additional handling charges at the depots, so that the charges, if anything different this year, would be higher?—It is difficult for me to say higher, but I should say it would be as high. 1232. You said it would cost more this year than previously?—I said I think it will cost more. I am taking my own case. I know what transpired in 1915-16 harvest, and I know what it cost me, and if it returns to the Pool this year what I got it would be a fairly large amount. 1233. We are trying to ascertain that. In regard to bulk handling, it appears you are opposed to it?—At the present stage. The State is not sufficiently sound but we can pull through. With increased prosperity it may be a different thing. I should certainly like to see bulk handling.

1234. Under present conditions the cost and conditions would make it too high for the farmers?—I think so. I saw that someone in giving evidence said that if it cost 1s. 6d. to the farmers it would pay them.

1235. That was the capital cost of construction?—It seems a strange thing to me that men who know their business do not seem to be advocating bulk handling. As a country agent it would be better for me; I would make more money. 1236. As far as the farmers are concerned, there would not be a great saving as to bags?—I do not see how there could be with the extra cost of storage charge and silos.If you could eliminate the storages charges at stations on bag stuff it might be different. 1237. You realise that the present storage is only for one-third of the harvest?—The I do not know how you would discriminate . It would be a difficult matter. There would be so much handling if there are only a few terminal places/. 1238. The only recommendation, shall I put it that way, that you can give us in the interests of the farmers as far as any saving is concerned, and better management, is that the whole of the handling of the wheat should be controlled by the Scheme itself. That is your recommendation?—That is storage at sidings. 1239. Instead of the double handling at Quairading?—Yes. 1240. By Hone. J. F. ALLEN: I understand that the sites of the railway sidings were not selected by the agents when you were handling the wheat, but by the Commissioner?—We took what was given us. 1241. With their knowledge of the localities, extending over many years, was it unprecedented rain during the time you were handling the wheat that made the sites unique as far as water was concerned?—I spoke of damp sites. 1242. I understood you said that there was water up to your knees?—That was this year. In previous years I saw a certain amount of water. 1243. Have you had any previous knowledge of that site; did you see it previously?—I saw the water there the year before. 1244. So that the railway people knew it was a wet place?—They must have known. 1245. Do you think the railway authorities were to blame in selecting a site like that?—I would not say that. 1246. This loss from flooding would be carried by the Pool, not the agents?—Always.