1337. Are you sure that this is going to make for cheaper handling charges this year?—if the farmer has a right to supervise his own handling, he is satisfied that he can effect a saving, and that by giving a proper article to the Scheme and receiving fair and just treatment in the way of dockage, he realises that it is a good thing in the interests of the industry and the Scheme. The handling charges need not be cheaper in order that the farmer may gain. 1338. Do you think that the handling charges will be cheaper to the farmer?—Yes. 1339. In what way, as this year it is on the operative basis?—It is cheaper, because where companies are operating any profit that is made is retained by the company which is actually owned by the farmers. In this way there can be no leakage, where, as preciously, the individual received the benefit. The bare cost of handling only is charged for and anything over and above that is repaid to the farmers of the centre concerned. 1340. Are you not aware that the stacking at the depots and the care of the wheat is a matter for the Pool, apart altogether from what you are paying?—Yes. 1341. And that the farmer will have to pay a charge in addition to what he is paying to the agents?—Yes. 1342. It is really only in the matter of handling at the siding at which the wheat is delivered that you think a small saving is being made?—I claim that there is a saving at the siding. 1343. You base your experience on the quantity of wheat handled by your society in 1915-17?—I am only directly connected with one society, namely the co-operative company at Benjaberring. 1344. How many farmers are there in that district?—About 20, and to a man they are in the company. 1345. In your opinion the company has given every satisfaction to the farmers?—I know of no complaints in the district. 1346. there have been no complaints so far as officers of the Wheat Scheme are concerned?—Not levelled at us. 1347. Do you not think, seeing that an undertaking was given to the agents that business would not be interfered with, that they should not have been removed from their agencies at present?—As farmers we claim that this is a branch of our industry, namely, doing what we can to get our wheat to market. Our difficulty in the past has been that we have never had a clear road to the markets of the world. We are fighting this matter from the individual point of view rather than from the point of view of individuals. Some of us have had long years of experience in farming, and I myself have been cradled in agriculture. We know that unless we can find some method by which we can get better values for our commodities and by which we can get into closer touch with the markets, and get over the question of the middle man, we have not a great future to look forward to. 1348. You would not say that you were taking advantage of the Government's financing the Scheme to throw these people out of their business and that this was not open competition as under normal conditions? We are not taking advantage of the position but are rendering all the help we can in this matter. 1349. You could not do it but for the Pool system?—We could not have created a monopoly, but could have come in on all fours with the other agents. 1350. You think the co-operative societies could have run against the established agents who were in existence prior to the war under normal conditions, and could have financed the business so that they could have entered into competition?—They never had a proper chance of trying. I think I am justified in saying that they would certainly have made a great endeavour to have come into the trade. 1351. If the war ceased tomorrow and if next year's harvest were thrown upon the open market as under normal conditions and the Pool were not continued, do you think the co-operative societies could take up the business and finance it?—That is a huge question, and it would not be fair that I should commit the societies on an issue of that kind, because they may have to face it in the near future. They will grasp it gamely and are eager to do so, and to retain that portion of the trade. We claim that this is another branch of the industry. We hope to economise in this way, and by that means increase our production. Something has to be done. 1352. My reason for asking you is that you say the 20 farmers in the Benjabbering district are all members of your co-operative society. Those 20 members sent in 30,000 bags of wheat. Being aware of the financial position of the society and of the farmers, do you think the society could have financed that quantity of wheat under normal conditions?—The very best that the society could do would be to work in conjunction with other societies; there would be no individual effort. The small company to which I belong would have fallen into line with the rank and file. A matter of that kind, however, would be dealt with by the Westralian Farmers, Ltd. 1353. Is not your company an independent company?—Quite so, but we realise that we are not going to place wheat on the market separately, that none of the co-operative companies will place wheat on the market separately. This would be done through one channel. 1354. But you are not connected as a company with the Westralian Farmers, Ltd?—We are not bound to them, but we treat them as a parent. 1355. You treat them as your wholesale merchants?—Exactly. 1356. so far as the Westralian Farmers Ltd. are concerned, therefore, they have nothing to do with regard to the financing of your co-operative society?—We are independent of them, but they render friendly help to our societies, and they do not tie themselves down; the companies need not be rural. They render help in the formation of societies and also to conduct business. 1357. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN : Advice or cash?—In some instances it has actually been both. 1358. That is, they give them credit?—Yes. They have assisted companies to come into being. 1359. By Mr BROWN : Did I understand you to say that there was not a farmer in the district who was not a member of your society?—We claim to have a complete chain there. 1360. The farmers as a whole have given efficient service in the way of delivery this year as in previous years?—Quite. We do not know what a complaint is. 1361. Are the same men employed by the co-operative society as were employed y the competitive agents?—In our company we have not employed the same men because they were sent from other centres. In a very few cases the managers of the co-operative companies are the men who receive the wheat. 1362. What quantity of wheat do you consider one agent is capable of handling in these centres, that is for quick delivery?—That point needs explanation. Do you mean that one agent would to scaling and stacking? 1363. Yes. When four or five teams come in together there must be a certain amount of delay?—With co-operative handling there is really no delay. If two or three teams come in together, with the farmers operating on their own wheat, there is voluntary labour, and they walk straight into it, and get the wheat put into the stack expeditiously. They help one another. That is a spirit which never existed in the past. 1364. In connection with staffing, was any delay caused in your district?—It was certainly later than the year before, but there was no delay caused by my company or by the acquiring agents. 1365. In connection with the acquiring this year, has your company sufficiently covered and protected the wheat so that it will stand for a year or two?—Our wheat during the pas few weeks has all been removed, but we certainly complied to the best of our ability with the request put forward by the Scheme. 1366. In the upcoming crop you will have 100,000 bushels. If that has to remain there for 12 to 18 months, will the skeleton sheds meet all requirements?—I am afraid not; it will have to go to some big depot. I do not think we should have to deal with a cumbersome system of bagging. I am anxious to see some other system introduced. 1367. Would you favour bulk handling?—I would. If we are to be successful in Australia, I claim that we must have the modern facilities which other countries have. 1368. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN : Do you occupy any office in connection with your company?—I have filled the office of chairman since the inception of the company, but the position is purely honorary.