proceeds of this season's crop, and I could make a success of it, but I would not prefer such a scheme in preference to the present arrangement because it looks as though it were a permanent debt when spread over a long period of years, and I consider that I could clear off my debt with a decent season. There would always be the tendency for a man to squander his funds if the conditions were made so easy. It would be far preferable to let a man clear up his debt out of his crops and keep him going until he could work upon his own capital. I have a quantity of rabbit-proof netting at the siding at the present moment, but the Agricultural Bank will not find the money to enable me to cart it and finish my fencing. It cost the Government over £60 per mile, while it only cost me £21 a mile delivered at the siding. I am sending some of it back to them on account of the land that I have given up.

6454. To Mr. PAYNTER: The stock-carrying capacity of the land varies. I have been told that there is no feed to equal what is grown here, and if so, I would have a good chance if my property were all fenced. A station owner in the North has undertaken to supply me with sheep as soon as I have the fence erected. Messrs. Paterson and Cooke would let me finish my fencing but Mr. Richardson would not. I could get along all right once I am fenced, although there are dogs and rabbits, but speaking generally they are not very much trouble. We have had two good years and therefore they are becoming more plentiful. I have 13 traps going and they average four or five rabbits a day. My place is on the outside of the fence, but there are as many rabbits inside as outside. I am near the 341-Mile gate, and I see all the officials regularly doing their routine work. I was up the fence as far as Yalgoo twice last year and at that time the rabbits were making eastward; but now there are as many scratchings on the west side as on the east. Frequently, too, the gates are left open by travellers. There are rabbits close up to Geraldton now and Inspector Mills of the Agricultural Bank told me that some years ago when he was a boy they were there then. When the No. 2 fence was being erected they went through in places. I think it is an unfair thing that settlers in close proximity to the siding should only pay the same rent as those a long distance away.

(The witness retired.)

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COOPER SUTTON TODD, Farmer, Latham, sworn and examined:

6455. To the CHAIRMAN: I have been here seven years and hold 2,000 acres. I am situated 8½ miles east of the railway. I have 200 acres cleared and 100 acres felled, a house, a stable, a yard, but no machinery shed. I have a good well of water 30ft. deep, but my plant is only a partial one. I have six working horses, a couple of which belong to my wife. When I came here I had £1,000 capital and I have since got £200 from the Agricultural Bank, and £200 from the Industries Assistance Board, but I have no crop in. I have no doubt that bulk handling would assist me. I was employed on an elevator when in Canada and know the whole operation right through. The bank business is no good to the farmer. Wheat should be taken from the harvester to the siding in open wagons. In Canada the grain is dumped into the middle of the paddock and they keep it inside boards in the field and cover it with iron. Then it is quite safe in that condition until the farmer is ready to cart it. They thresh it in winter and cart it when they are ready. You can get a vacuum sucker and attach it to the wagon and pass the grain in through it. I have not considered the question of the operation in relation to the farmer. The best yield I have had has been 15 bushels, and if you are only working 300 acres it will cost you 10 bushels before you can make anything for yourself. With a similar area, of course, it would cost a good deal more. I do not think the present land laws are calculated to induce people to take up land. In some cases it is too dear and the holdings are too much distributed. People are put into isolated areas generally which prevent them making a living out of anything except wheat. I myself was 20 miles from a railway for a long time, and 20 miles is a long distance to have to cart everything, which prevents you from making anything out of your wheat. People come out to these distant places in the hope of others coming and of being able to do some good in a few years time, but here the position is becoming one of ruination. When the war came along I was about to do things. I had a contract 300 acres of clearing but I was blocked for want of water. I had to cart water for two years from Corinji siding, 17 miles away, and the rainfall has been disastrous. I certainly think we should all have our land free for a certain number of years until the country has been proved. If it is proved to be good we should be asked to pay for it, but no man is making anything out of it at the present time. If he had them he could not sell eggs or butter, and when you come to handle wheat at such a distance there is nothing left for you out of it. Every man who has been growing wheat here is in debt. None of them, however, keep books and do not know how they stand. If we could depend upon the rainfall the land would yield 20 to 30 bushels. If the Government were to help us over the bad seasons we would do all right in the end, although personally I would sooner do without the Government at all. All my transactions with them have been most unfortunate. I have only had a water supply of my own for the last two years. The first thing the Government should do should be to provide water for the settlers. A great number of them can keep poultry and pigs and tide things over if they have water. There should also be great leniency in regard to rents. We have been wasting time and energy up here for the chance of something ahead. I ask you is there any other body of men who would do the same as we have been doing for so many years?

(The witness retired.)

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CHARLES FREDERICK WILLIAM JUST, Farmer, Latham, sworn and examined:

6456. To the CHAIRMAN: I came here in 1909 and had 13 years' previous experience as a farmer in the Wagin district. I took up 1,724 acres, of which 1,400 were forest. I have between 500 and 600 acres cleared, and I adjoin the railway siding. My land lies from the siding three miles west. We have been