our position as eight bushels does not pay costs. We use a 10-disc Shearer cultivator plough. We have an 8ft. Sunshine harvester and last year it took seven horses to pull it. Through loss of time we could not get over more land than we did with a 6ft. machine. No doubt bulk handling would reduce our costs if this came into operation we would bag our grain loosely in bags and tie it up by the neck. We certainly should not be taxed as we are now on farming implements, and it is a fact that the McKay farming tools are cheaper in Argentine than they are here.

6556. If your liabilities were funded and time given you to repay them, would that meet your case?—It all depends upon the seasons. With a normal season, yes, undoubtedly, but in any case we shall get clear of the Board this year with anything like a crop and then we go on as usual.

6557. To Mr. PAYNTER: Last year we had a little blight. We pickle our wheat, but do not grade it, nor have we tried artificial grasses. All the time we have been battling. We do not keep pigs, but we have plenty of poultry, and eggs sell very well up here. No man on his own land should hold less than 1,000 acres, and he should be able to crop 250 acres himself every year, and although I believe in co-operation, yet when it comes to be applied to farmers I am afraid that it will never be brought about. The price of Government land appears to me to be reasonable, but it would be better still if the payment for the land were deferred for at least three years. It is during the first few years of his occupancy of the land that the man is at his greatest outlay.

6558. To Mr. VENN: I should personally like to go in for sheep just now as we have plenty of grass, but we are not, unfortunately, in a position to buy sheep, and we have not very much fencing for them. What we did was go in for clearing, and in this way we cut out several loans. Nevertheless, we are at the present moment able to run cows on our country. I think sheep would do better than cattle here, although we may have the dingo trouble, but that is a matter of fencing. Still, we have no poison. We prefer wells on our place to sinking dams. The rabbits are increasing lately. Twelve months ago you would hardly see one.

(The witness retired.)

WILLIAM PAYNE, Farmer, Perenjori, sworn and examined:

6559. To the CHAIRMAN: I have been there for four years, and I had been farming all my life previously in Victoria, New South Wales, and in this State. I have also lived in the Busselton district. I took up 1,000 acres at first, and since then I have taken another 1,000. Four hundred acres are scrub country. I paid 11s. 6d. for one block, and 11s. for the other. The property is situated give miles north from the railway. I have cleared 300 acres; one block of 1,000 acres is ring fenced. The water supply is a well that gives 70 gallons per hour. It is good stock water. I am a married man with six children, and all except one are of school age. I have not erected a house. My home is made of super bags with an iron roof on top. The reason my house is such a poor one is for want of funds.

6560. Would it not have paid you to put up a decent house at the start?—No; because I did not know where I would get the water, and it would not do to build too far away from the water, and, as a matter of fact, it is only within the last few months that I have got the water. I have a bush shed for my horses, but no covering for my machinery. I have a full working plant, but I have not got a plough yet, and I need one very badly. I have 10 working horses and some pigs. When I arrived with my wife and my family I had £2 to my credit, and I have been financed by the Agricultural Bank to the extend of £300. I also owe money to the I.A.B. It is impossible to tell you exactly, but I think about £150 to £200 would cover all my liability to the board.

6561. To Mr. CLARKSON: I am working on shares, and have 300 acres in as well as 250 acres at my own place. For the other half-share my partner finds the seed, the super, the land, the bags, and the carting, while I do the rest. I have no fallow, and have no experience of fallow in this district. Last year I fallowed 50 acres on the share system and got as high as 10 bags to the acre on 530 acres. The average on shares was 18 bushels on 330 acres. The 250 acres averaged 10 bushels. This year I think those 250 acres will go 12 bushels, and the paddock alongside of this building where we are sitting will go about nine bushels. It is Gluyas. Elsewhere I have another 130 acres adjoining Mr. Simpsons's place at Bowgada that will go from 18 to 20 bushels. I use 50 lbs. of seed to the acre and 35 to 80 lbs. of super according to the quality of the land. Nothing less than 10 bushels per acre would pay for expenses. I am not quite sure, but I think that bulk handling ought to reduce costs, particularly if the Government had a hand in it. I consider that the tariff on farmer's machinery should be reduced, if not abolished.

6592. To Mr. PAYNTER: I have had no disease in my crops. I pickle but do not grade my wheat, and I have had no artificial grasses or fodder crops except a little plot of lucerne, which is doing well. I have started pig raising with 14 pigs, and I shall feed them with grain. No man in this district should have less than 1,000 acres, and of course proportionately more than that if he is going in for sheep. He ought to be able to deal with close upon 500 acres himself. I am no believer in co-operation amongst farmers because they would be certain to be in opposition of each other. The price on our land is reasonable, but the conditions are the reverse. For the first five years of his occupancy no man should be asked to pay any rents at all. Nor, indeed, so long as his land is producing nothing, because during the whole of that time he is money out of pocket. To remit his rent his rent for give years is to give him a chance to make it good.

6563. To Mr. VENN: Later on I intend to go in for sheep when my land is fit to carry them, and that will be a long time yet unless I can get an advance to clear more land. But it must be remembered that we cannot get land cleared for £1 an acre, because labour is too scarce. When it is improved it will be good grazing country. I do not doubt that it will easily carry a sheep to the acre. That is the majority of land here. I do not keep cows. I have been growing potatoes and I have some samples of my produce here. Next year if we have anything like a season I shall do even better with them. I planted 14cwt. of seed, and up to now have taken off three