I have never given such a scheme a thought, but I must say that any man who had a desire to succeed should be only too glad to adopt it. If it could be realised I think it would inspire new ideas and new effort and would probably make good. it would make good men better and bad men get out, For the man who is unable to pay his rent the Board will pay it for him and wipe off the lands Department indebtedness. It seems hard that on Crown lands, land which is of no value until it has been settled should be charged for. Then, later on, a man finds that he cannot meet his land rents and the I.A. B. pay them for him and charge 6 per cent. I think that is a hardship for some of them and they resent it accordingly.

6700. By Mr . VENN: would you call Pindar a safe wheat growing district? —I would not like to go beyond that. I think settlement is far enough east of Mullewa now.

6701. Do you think that wheat can be successfully grown at Mullewa? —Yes.

6702. Do you think the farmers can carry more sheep? —Yes. I consider it is the best grazing along the line. I have seen as far as my district extends, and I have a good knowledge of the country down to Dalwallinu

6703. By Mr . PAYNTER: There do not seem to be many dams in these dry areas? —We advance money for procuring water.

6704. More reliance seems to be placed upon wells for water supply? —Yes, and they are better then dams. You might have a light season in growing wheat, but with wells you have the water always available.

6705. By the CHAIRMAN: Judging from your life long experience of the district, what do you think should be the average rainfall from Latham to Mullewa annually? —A light rain falls in summer but the gross average rainfall I think would be 10in.

6706. On what evidence do you base that opinion? —It is really guesswork from recollection of past years.

6707. Why make a guess? —I have no record to guide me in Mullewa. For instance, there may be a storm which would spread no further. Perhaps there might be a couple of inches at Perenjori or another fall at Pintharooka.

6708. You could not point to any permanent rainfall on which to base your opinion? —No

6709. Then the settlement has been experimental? —I would not, as a Government official, say that.

6710. I want an answer to a plain question? —Then I supposes it has been experimental.

6711. So the settlers there are conducting a vast experimental farm for the benefit of the State? —It looks like it.

6712. What do you think would be the average winter rainfall from Latham to Mullewa. At Mingenew the official figures give 15.65 over 20 years? — some seasons are very dry perhaps the estimate should be raised a little and make it, say, 11 inches.

6713. What is your opinion of the winter rainfall? — I think it is about 8in or 9in 6714. Can you point to any successful man between Latham and Mullewa? —I am afraid I cannot

6715. What length does the oldest agricultural settlement along there cover? —About six years, I think.

6716. During that time they had a drought in 1911 and another drought in 1914? —Yes

6717. During that time, also, they were without railway communication for a considerable period? —As a matter of fact the railway has only taken away two harvests.

6718. So, regarding the whole position as an experimental farm, there have been exceptional draw-backs and the settlers have not had a chance? —That is so, and too, they used to bring their goods up by the Midland line and carry them out eastward. There was no water at all and the first trip I made from Carnamah to Perenjori I went 50 miles without water. There were only one or two sheep wells here and there and so the settlers had to carry water, and I do not think they have had a chance to make good.

6719. What do you think of the methods of cultivation? —Generally speaking they are not good.

6720. Do you think the land has had a fair chance by virtue of the unsatisfactory methods employed? —No, I do not.

6721. So it is unproved, untested and unknown? —With regard to the line from Marchagee to Geraldton, I take it settlement there is considerably better? —Yes.

6722. Can you point to any successful settlers along that line? —Do you speak of farmers only?

6723. Men who have taken up land. I do not care what they have done with it? —I am afraid there are not too many unless you speak of the wealthy men who own stock and made money out of the Irwin district. You would not include men like Phillips.

6724. The grazing community have done well? — The big Squatters have disappeared and there are smaller men in their places and there are successful men among them. 6725. But are they nearly all graziers? —I think a lot of men have made good, but they had longer time to make good in and it was mostly through stock, not by means of corn growing.

6726. Do you think that given longer time the farmers can make good along the line? —I think they can grow corn.

6727. By Mr PAYNTER: Do you think they can farm successfully on mixed farming lines? —Yes, certainly.

6728. By the CHAIRMAN: What do you think the Government might do to consolidate existing settlement and promote future settlement ? This commission has been sent out to examine the position and to suggest to the Authorities how it could be improved and you are the sort of man who should be able to make valuable suggestions? —I think in regard to all Crown lands that in order to give a man heart, arrears or rent should be wiped out. I think the land prices in some instances are far too high. The land as it is in its natural condition, is no good until the man has gone on it and proved its capacity. Until the country is improved and the man has reached his earning power upon it, it is not a good thing to put taxation on him or rent until he has the ways and means to meet his liabilities. If you take the man's heart away he becomes merely a burden on the State and will remain so as long as the Government will stand him. Many of them are brave men, and seeing the hardships of the life they have to lead in the initial stages, the Government might well give them the land until they are firmly established. They might give it for say 10 years, if necessary, and after that they might.