6835. By Mr. CLARKSON: Do you think that their farming methods are on sound lines?—Some of them are and some of them are not. There is a great deal of chance entering into it, but one good thing is that they are getting more efficient every year.

6836. Does fallow show better results, speaking generally?—A lot depends on the way in which the land is cropped. If they sow early wheats on fallow in a dry year they always get something, but when they sow early wheats late on fallow they are taking a risk. A lot of the early wheats had rust and the crops were all straw and stalk.

6837. Are many men making a success of farming in Ajana and Yuba?—It is some time since I was there, but I know a number of the settlers. Mr. Porter, of Ajana, is a good average settler and is doing well. Mr. Thomas O'Brien is always able to pay his way, and the Murray Bros. are getting along very well indeed.

6838. As you travel among the farmers a great deal, what do you think generally of their housing accommodation?—Most of them live in bush houses, and they are pretty rough, especially the bachelors' camps.

6839. Do you think that a married man who has a wife is contented on the land when suffering the inconvenience of being without a house? Do you not thing it would militate against the farmer's success?—Speaking generally, I think the housing is very indifferent. I was on the land myself for about five years, and we were happy enough in a two-roomed place with a skillion, and my wife like it.

6840. Why did you leave it?—It was poor country and would not keep us. That was 20 miles south of Kojonup, however. My father is still there.

(The witness retired.)

GEORGE HENRY BASHAM, Manager Western Australia Bank, Geraldton, examined:

6841. By the CHAIRMAN: Over what territory does you branch of the bank operate?—To the south, about 20 miles, as far as Bookare. It takes in the Mullewa district east and the whole of the East Chapman, Mount Erin, Yuna, a good portion of Bowes area, Isseka, and all along the west coast to Geraldton.

6842. What is the bank's valuation of thoroughly improved land?—Taking the Greenough lands, for banking purposes about £4 to £5 an acre. As you get out towards the coast it depreciates, but the good land around Mt. Erin, Bowes, and going south-west you can put down at £3 an acre on the freehold basis. Mullewa would be about 30s. an acre, and Yuna about the same.

6843. Are the settlers doing as satisfactorily in the Mullewa area?—Unfortunately since it was thrown open the seasons have been indifferent, but last year they were better. Taking a district like Mullewa, there is no hope of any man making a living on 1,000 acres.

6844. What are do you think you should have?—My idea is that in dry areas a man should have at least 5,000 acres with 1,000 acres on C.P. conditions (first class land); and he should be allotted, if possible, a proportion of sandplain and second class country on the perpetual lease system, subject to conditions of stocking. My experience here is that a farmer cannot make farming pay on the wheat growing along. I could go through the books and pick out customers who have been on a proper basis and who have a credit balance, while those who have tried to make a success of wheat growing are behind.

6845. Have you had any experience of perpetual leases?—Yes, in South Australia. I lived there 23 years ago; perpetual leases were in force then. Look at the hundreds of miles of country in this State that are not producing 6d. worth of anything, yet if it takes 20 acres to carry a sheep, why not carry sheep and produce something? When the boom was on I went into the game myself, but I am differently situated to the ordinary farmer and can sit quietly by and obtain the experience of my customers. I selected some of these and culled them down to one or two and took their advice. The first thing I did on my land was to get water. I fenced in the land and put on 300 or 400 good ewes. In my second year I took £500 off the place and I have gone on similar lines ever since.

6846. By Mr. VENN: Yours must be good grazing land?—I took up a few thousand acres of jam country with good feed in a dry year this side of Ajana. No man with limited means, if he could go about it on the same system, could make a success of it.

6847. By the CHAIRMAN: Do you consider this country to be more a grazing than an agricultural proposition?—I should like to make both of them compulsory. With the exception of Mt. Erin no man can do much on a thousand acres. In granting perpetual leases, provision should be made for wheat growing and for the country to carry within a reasonable number of sheep to its capacity.

6848. By Mr. CLARKSON: Do you know of any man in the district who has made a profit out of wheat growing alone?—No, it is impossible under present conditions, but we are going through an abnormal set of conditions; the land should not be expected to pay until it has been opened up and developed. Once a farmer is established he can go in for wheat growing and stock, and both would pay under those conditions.

6849. Do you think under those circumstances the proposition would pay fair interest on the investment considering the long hours the farmer has to work?—But the farmer in the early stages must throw in his own labour.

6850. Would it pay reasonable wages and interest to the man engaged in it?—I do not think it would. Wheat growing along would not pay even under very favourable conditions; you must have stock as well.

6851. But all the areas in the State are not suitable for mixed farming?—Possibly, but I am speaking of this district, which is exceptional for mixed farming.

6852. By Mr. VENN: Is there any dairying done here?—There is very little on the Greenough flats. We had Mr. Connor up here, the Government dairy expert, and he seemed favourably impressed with the conditions. Under proper conditions, that is by preserving the grass during the winter months, it should be made to pay.