sheep-proof fencing. I am a married man with six children; I married a widow. None of the children are attending school. The school is 1¾ miles away. I have an iron and hessian house, partitioned. I have no stables for horses and no shed for machinery. I have plenty of water, two wells of stock water. I have a full set of implements, with the exception of a binder, and five working horses, 304 sheep, two cows, and seven pigs. I had about £800 capital when I started farming, and I also received assistance from the Agricultural Bank and the I.A.B. The bank advanced about £450 and the I.A.B. paid my rent for 2½ years, and since then I have had manure from them. But my rent is excessive, £152 a year, that is over £300 for two years. Then there was half a year's rent previous to that, amounting to £375. Since March I have had about 10 guineas a month from the board for nine months, say another £100. I had about £40 worth of super from them as well, making about £140, so that my liability to the board would be somewhere about £1,000.

6955. What was the reason you were charged £2 18s. per acre; is the land of extra good quality?—It is an old sheep camp, but the land all round is dear. I did not examine it before taking it up. I was on the goldfields at the time, and the plans were not out. I thought it would be tiptop land, and I did not like to forfeit the £70 that I paid, and thought I would give it a go. But if the Government want it now they are welcome to it. It takes 366 bags of wheat to pay the rent. The rent is £152 4s. per annum; that includes both rent and principal. It is on the 20 years' basis.

6956. To Mr CLARKSON: I have 240 acres of crop in; 130 acres was fallow. The ground was so boggy that I could not get on it with the horses, and had to do the work in small sections. I finished in September. It was cultivated before I seeded it, and was ploughed again. The doublegees are a pest, and the summer rain caused me to plough everything up afresh. I was reckoning on 14 bushels this year, but I have had the harvester on it since, and I am doubtful as to the return. The highest average that I have had over the whole crop was 218 bags last year over 224 acres. I cut about 20 acres for hay, which works out 2.87, or nearly three bags. To pay the cost of putting in and taking off would amount to 35s. or 36s., but if it rains it costs me more. I had to plough 100 acres of fallow twice over. I sowed 35lbs. of Curawa, and 63lbs. of super. to the acre. I think that bulk handling would reduce that cost. The bags would have to be used to get the crop to the siding.

6957. To Mr PAYNTER: My crops last year suffered from rust. I pickle my wheat, and put it through a winnower. I tried to grow vegetables, but without success, as the seasons are too erratic. I planted 250 cabbages, and they came to nothing. I employ no labour; I average over 12 hours work a day myself. A man, to make a decent living, should hold about 2,000 acres here, but he could crop annually only 150 acres if he is going to do it properly. A man can put in a lot of land if he slums it and chances it. Judging from what I can do myself, I think it would be an advantage to co-operate for the purchase of supplies, I have advocated co-operation for two or three years, and urged the formation of a co-operative store. As storekeepers, we would get our goods cheaper, but nobody has any cash here. I think the price of the land is quite unreasonable, and there should be a material reduction made. The land that is worth £2 an acre now is going to be worth less than 30s. an acre owing to the pests and the rabbits.

6958. Do you think if the terms were extended that it would be any advantage?—No, I do not think so, unless we could get a solid reduction. Roughly, I must have 366 bags of wheat, that is 30 tons, landed in Geraldton to pay my costs, and I cannot do it.

6959. Apart from the reduction of rents, do you think the land conditions are liberal?—All of us are in the same boat it seems to me.

6960. By Mr VENN: You have good sheep country, have you not?—Yes, but I am overstocked. Last year I had about 160 sheep. I bought 70 lambs thinking that I could get rid of them. I went down to Perth to try to get out of the land, and I had a conversation with Mr Conway, who said he would try to get me a reduction. The I.A.B. came to my assistance and I went on. While I was away the lad put the sheep in a paddock in which there was no feed, and they starved to death. I had a lot of blighted grain and I thought they would fatten on it. I think it is fairly good sheep country, but we have too many doublegees. No doubt if a man had the money to bring the land up to a state of perfection it would be all right.

6961. By the CHAIRMAN: Have you been assisted with advice by the experts of the Department of Agriculture as to methods and other details?—No. I did hear a lecture by Mr Connor, and I am personally acquainted with him, but I have not had an interview with Mr Sutton. I have not seen any literature published by the department for some time past but I consider that a lot of what was written is absolute rot. I read two or three of the departmental articles some years ago. I applied for land at Nunagin, but they rubbed me out. I have got a lot of Agricultural Journals. There is one article which impressed me where it stated that a man should get 150 per cent. of lambs. That is quite an absurdity. The department should not allow such articles to be published, as they are most misleading. The only way that that could be achieved would be by half of the sheep having twins.

6962. By Mr CLARKSON: I am told that that is not an uncommon occurrence in the old country?—That may or may not be so. I am not in the position to say, but as far as experts are concerned we have had no visits from any of the departmental people.

(The witness retired.)

PETER LEDSHAM, Farmer, Roslyn, sworn and examined:

6963. To the CHAIRMAN: I have been here for five years. I had nine years' experience in Canterbury New Zealand, principally in the fat lamb business. I hold 2,232 acres of repurchased land on the Bowes estate. We have 700 acres at £2 an acre, but the purchase price to me is £2,100, and I should like to emphasise that and contrast it with the price of Crown lands. We have 703 acres at 40s., 1,099 acres at 15s., 480 acres at 9s., and the annual payment is £183 19s. 10d., which includes principal and interest. It is three to four miles distant to the railway. The good arable land is about 1,000 acres, and the balance is grazing country. It is broken with granite outcrops and