his feet. We started with nothing and had to pay rent, which kept us battling the whole time. We should have bigger areas of land and five years' exemption from rent. As far as I am concerned, I am satisfied that the more you put in the more you lose. Under the present conditions, it is not payable, but under a system of fallow, wheat farming would be a payable proposition. We dry ploughed our land and put in as much as we have cleared. This year I have 80 acres of fallow, but if we had plenty of land cleared and fallow only, we would be in a far better proposition. We have 230 sheep. I think we can carry 300 on stubble and cleared land as the improvements go on. The sheep do well provided there is plenty of water. Sheep have been our salvation and not wheat growing. There is a lot of land north of Ajana up for selection, but the price is too high, and it is in a low rainfall. If we only get an 11 bushel crop, I do not think we can carry on.

7237. By Mr. PAYNTER: What hope have you then of remaining on your holding?—None, unless we are relieved of the liability of the Lands Department, otherwise it would be foolish to stop. If we had to pay the Lands Department and the Industries Assistance Board as well, we would be in a hopeless position.

7238. By the CHAIRMAN: If your position was remodelled and your land was leased at a rental of 1d. an acre, could you carry on and make a do of it?—I have always contended so, and I am in favour of such a proposition, which would be like a perpetual lease in South Australia. Notwithstanding the ultimate benefit, I would be better off under leasehold tenure altogether.

(The witness retired.)

——————————

GEORGE HENRY WINSTANLEY, Farmer, Hutt Siding, sworn and examined:

7239. By the CHAIRMAN: I came here first in 1910. I had farming experience in Wild Dog Gully, Port Ellison. I was also farming in this State on the Dale River for five years. I selected 1,000 acres at 10s. 6d.; 300 acres are good cultivable land; 200 acres are sandplain, and the rest rushy country. It was all sold at the one price, 10s. 6d. I have 3½ miles cartage to the railway, and my water supply is no good. I have two men sinking a well; I have plenty of stock water, but it is not good enough for horses or my own use. The bore now shows fresh water. I have 300 acres cleared and 800 acres fenced. There is some poison on the sandy ground, a bastard poison, though it does not seem to hurt anything. I am a widower with four grown-up children, and I live in a one-roomed camp. I have bush stables, bush machinery shed, and bush shearing shed. I have a full set of implements, four working horses, 170 sheep and lambs, and 12 pigs. I put £220 into the farm and borrowed £325 from the Agricultural Bank. I owe the Industries Assistance Board and other creditors £420 to the 31st March last, so it would be over £500, including the advance of 6d. that has since been made. Neither super nor bags were included in the £420 referred to.

7240. To Mr. CLARKSON: I have 180 acres under crop, 20 are fallow, but it did not turn out any better than the other. I have had small bits of fallow and found fallow was the best previously, about three or four bushels better than the other. I sow about 40lbs. odd of seed to the acre, and 60lbs. to 70lbs. of super. On red clay land I sow about 30lbs. of seed and on the other land as high as 100lbs. I do not put any more seed on the light land than on the red soil. The highest average that I have got was in 1913-14 bushels. I estimate to have nine to ten bushels this year. To pay expenses at, say, 10s. a bag, I would have to get 12s. in order to obtain fair wages. I use a four-furrow mould board and two fourrow ploughs. I use five horses, and I do about four acres a day. I have a 13-harrow drill, which does eight acres, a Deering harvester, which has a 5ft. 6in. comb, which does five or six acres. I do my own work very much cheaper. That is where I made the mistake in getting my first plough. Bulk handling ought to reduce costs. The lorry could be easily boarded to cart the grain, and I would be saved from buying any bags. I have always fought against the tariff, and all our implements should be free of duty.

7241. If you were given ten years to repay what you owe, would you manage to get along without further assistance, provided you had this year's crop in hand?—Yes, certainl, if the seasons were good. I have my place now fairly going, and I would prefer that to working under the present method.

7242. To Mr. PAYNTER: Last year I had rust. I pickle my wheat, but do not grade it; it should be graded. I have some pigs. No man should have less than 2,000 acres, especially if he has sheep in the district. With my present machinery I cannot do more than 250 acres single-handed. I have not considered the effect of co-operation, but I think the land laws are fair enough, provided the seasons are good enough. Any difference of a few shillings in rent one way or the other would not make much difference to a man.

7243. To Mr. VENN: I started sheep three years ago. I got them from Carson on a twelve months' bill. I had to keep selling some of the sheep so as to pay him off. I would like to have 400 sheep if I could feed them. That is putting wool at 10d. to 1s. a pound. I could carry one sheep to three acres with feed. I do not feed the 200 sheep I have now, and they are in good condition, and they were old culls when I got them. I had to get rid of the young sheep to pay for them. It was like building a house without tools not to have sheep here. I took a place down below formerly, but sold it in order to go in for mining, and I am settled down on the land now for good.

(The witness retired.)

——————————

WILLIAM KEYTE, Farmer, Hutt, sworn and examined:

7244. To the CHAIRMAN: I have been here for seven years, and farming for 40 years at Hopetoun and Yorke's Peninsula, and also in Victoria. I hold, with my wife, 1,600 acres; 900 acres are good arable land fit for cultivation. The price has been reduced from 14s. to 9s. I was quite satisfied with my experience in the two other States. The rainfall here is about 16 inches, and cartage is two miles.

7245. By Mr. CLARKSON: How much of the 16 inches falls in the growing period?—It is not to be depended upon, and I cannot exactly say, but the rain generally starts about May; I think I should be safe in saying nine inches.