7529. By the CHAIRMAN: Under the guarantee system the department laid down the main and the settlers guaranteed 10 per cent. of the cost, which cost they took out in water at 2s. 6d. per 1,000. The department calculated 10 per cent. as interest and redemption annually, charging in effect nothing from the 20-inch main?—That is so.

7530. You say1¼d. per 1,000 the cost of pumping the water?—That is the actual operating cost, not allowing for the cost of the pumps.

7531. By Mr PAYNTER: It would have to be pumped whether the extension was there or not?—No, that is additional water. If the settlers want so much more one must run the pumps longer hours.

7532. By the CHAIRMAN: What does your water cost you per 1,000 between Baker's Hill and Cunderdin delivered at the 30-inch main, or between Northam and Cunderdin if you like?—Take it at Cunderdin. That would be three pumpings. The actual working cost of that is 1s. 7½d. per 1,000.

7533. What does it cost for headwork and other charges?—It would be about one-half of that. That is four stations, 160 miles. That is 1s. 7½d.

7534. The cost of the water to Cunderdin is, you say, 1s. 7½d. What would be the cost from Cunderdin to the next pumping station?—Merredin is the next, 2s. 9d.

7535. And Merredin to Burracoppin?—3s. 3d. It is that price because we are pumping ahead to the other sections.

7536. BY Mr PAYNTER: What is the cost for the whole distance from Mundaring to Kalgoorlie ?—the whole cost is close to 7s. per 1,000.

7537. Under what terms do the people in Kalgoorlie get water?—At varying prices. Some of them were charged 15s. per 1,000, that is if they also use water obtained elsewhere. We have all sorts of agreements. The nominal price is 7s., but that is where our water is used exclusively. If they use salt water from the mines they are charged 10s., and if they use water from other sources they are charged 15s.

7538. By the CHAIRMAN: Your official price is 7s. per 1,000?—Yes. And they get water at 5s. in return for the rate, and domestic water 2s. 5d. excess. Here is a table showing all the different prices. (Put in.)

7539. By Mr CLARKSON: You charge 1s. 6d. for sluicing. Why is that?—The mines are our very big customers and take almost all the water, and if it were not for them we could not run the scheme at all. They work it out; if they cannot get water for removing the sands at a very low rate they would have to use other means to shift the stuff, and it would be a loss to them and in a measure to us also. If they take a certain amount of water to keep us going and to pay our interest and working expenses, then it is up to us to give them a little additional water, as they are good customers, at a very low rate as long as it shows a slight profit. The more you sell cheaper the price at which you can sell.

7540. When you say "As long as it shows you a small profit," I would like to know how water at 1s. 6d. shows a profit when it costs 7s. to get it through?—When I say it costs 7s. it costs 7s. That allows for charges on the headworks and on the main. The main cost so much to maintain per annum and interest so much, practically a fixed sum. We were selling 500,000,000 gallons a year say. If the mines offered to take 100,000,000 gallons a year at 1s. 6d. additional we would work out that it would cost us additional to pump that water, say, 1s. per 1,000, whereas they offered us 1s. 6d. so that we would be making 6d. on that. That is not allowing anything for the main. The working costs are vey small compared with the interest charges.

7541. BY Mr PAYNETER: What are the conditions of the special guarantees?—The guarantee system was 2s. 6d. per 1,000. We found the result was that larger pipes were laid than were necessary. Under that system we had to lay pipes large enough to deliver all the water that people were entitled to within a reasonable time. To remedy that defect on the rated extension it was proposed that the price of the water instead of being 2s. 6d. per 1,000 would be raised and the main would be laid on a size sufficient to their supply needs only. Therefore, it would be a cheaper main and the annual payment required would be less although the nominal price of the water would be higher. The farmer would still get all the water he wanted but he would be paying 3s. to 5s. instead of 2s. 6d. Under the 2s. 6d. system the people did not use all the water they were entitled to so they were really paying more than 2s. 6d., although 2s. 6d. was the nominal price. That is what we call guaranteed extensions.

7542. I see here "80,000 gallons, 10 years, £10 a year" (reading from annual report)?—That is one of the items on the guaranteed extensions.

7543. By the CHAIRMAN: the Government got no interest?—No profit. All we got was a guarantee to pay 10 per cent. on the branch lines.

7544. By Mr PAYNETER: In regard to those extensions, before the land was taken up the cost of laying the main was added to the price of the land. Is that a perpetual arrangement after a man has paid for the land he has no more water charges to pay?—I cannot say. You will have ot get that information from the accountancy division. We have nothing to do with that as it is the financial side of the business.

7545. By Mr CLARKSON: On all those extensions now laid down, supposing the people who are rated along the extensions applied for water to which they were entitled, would you be in a position to supply it?—Yes, we would. The pipes are all worked out for maximum quantity.

7546. By Mr PAYNTER: You have the general water supply as well as the goldfields supply?—Off this main. Our branch does not handle that. The department does.

7547. When settlers apply for the water are investigations made to show whether they should have dams or wells?—I can give you as my own opinion that the present is a foolish policy for the State. I am in control of the 30-inch and all branches, but I do not know what another man is doing between branches. We know nothing about applications.

7548. By the CHAIRMAN: A group of settlers for instance may apply to have a well sunk?—the application would probably go to the Minister and eventually the Under Secretary, who would sent it on to Mr Oldham, but he would not necessarily say anything about it. He would dig in on his own. It is a three-headed sort of octopus in my opinion. One man should be responsible for conservation, boring and everything else, and divided authority generally means trouble.