7564. He would use it for cultivation, but not for stock?—Yes. You can get the water you want for domestic use. You want a good roof area and plenty of tanks.

7565. By the CHAIRMAN: It was an axiom in South Australia that tanks should be 12 feet deep?—Every foot you put on to that is an expense. You can put down seven feed solid for evaporation, and then there is absorption in addition. These tanks lined with asphalt have only one inch thick of lining and, of course, the ordinary farmer could not look at it.

7566. Your contention is that when the settlers wanted water in 1911-12, that after investigating you found the Mundaring water was the cheapest?—Yes, and I say at the conclusion: "In this case my advice is in favour of Mundaring water as against conservation, but I do not wish it understood that this advice applies generally to other areas requiring water north or south of the 30-inch man. Each locality should be stuided and reported upon independently."

7567. Will you give us an idea, when you were laying down these original guaranteed mains, did the Department contemplate giving the water away for nothing?—I was not in the Department then, but the Under Secretary could give the best explanation of that. I think the thing was so urgent, that it was resolved to do it provided it did not cost too much.

7568. You told us the cost of water to Cunderdin, including head water, and you gave figures. Adding 2s. 6d., which was the cost of your original guaranteed mains, that would give you a cost of 4s. 1½d. to Cunderdin, 5s. 3d. to Merredin, and 5s. 9d. to Burracoppin. Can you explain why the rate was first of all fixed at 8s. and then reduced to 6s., with the explanation that that was the lowest possible figure at which the Department would supply the water?—The rate was not raised to 6s. on the 30-inch main.

7569. I am talking about the extensions. You told us that 2s. 6d. pays and provides interest and redemption. Taking the same argument to apply to subsequent extensions, 1s. 7½d. is the cost to Cunderdin, 2s. 6d. the cost of extension, 4s. 1½d. the cost of guaranteed water, Burracoppin is 5s. 9d. and yet the Government originally charged 8s. on all extensions at Cunderdin and Burracoppin alike, and the explanation was that it was the cost of the water. It was reduced to 6s., which the Government still maintain is the cost of the water?—These mains were larger than were necessary, and make the water cheaper per thousand, but do not make the main any cheaper. Farmers pay more for it and get more water than they actually want. We ran out at the other extensions and charged a higher rate per thousand gallons. Carrying that principle out, we have made extensions longer and longer until the cost of the water came to 8s. calculated on what we thought the farmers would use. That is where the 8s. came in. It was assumed that each farmer would use a certain defined minimum amount of water per annum. The first 2s. 6d. extension was very short. Afterwards we took levels over the whole area adjacent to the main and made extensions as far as possible to take over that existing 8s. a thousand until the levels of the country rose too high.

7570. But you did not do any pumping on the extensions?—Not as a rule, but we could not gravitate too far. In North Merredin we gravitated 25, and in other places 7.

7571. By Mr. PAYNTER: When you reached the limit at which you could gravitate you stopped?—We had to stop at 8s. You could gravitate 1,000 miles, but if you have to deliver water at a defined price you must have a defined fall.

7572. You have the same defined fall in all your extensions?—Yes.

7573. I do not see why it costs you any different to lay water two miles on a guaranteed extension and 20 miles on an extension with the same fall?—We have had to pull up some of those pipes and put down bigger ones.

7574. I understand you to say that the pipes were too large?—The earlier ones were larger than necessary. The 8s. is calculated on the amount of water the farmer is likely to require and not on what the pipes will carry.

7575. I think Mr. Trethowan said the pipes would carry the water within a period of three months?—It is delivered in three months—the amount they are entitled to.

7576. It was presumed that the water was wanted most in the hottest part of the year?—Yes. That was taken I think at 50,000 gallons per annum over each thousand acres. The 8s. is worked out on that. If they took that amount of water all through the year, it would go down to 3s. perhaps. They took less than we estimated.

7577. By Mr. PAYNTER: Therefore paying for water they did not get?—Yes, quite a lot of it.

7578. By Mr. CLARKSON: Have you any idea what percentage the agricultural community actually uses of the amount they are entitled to?—At 6s. I can give it to you. The water they pay for but did not use was thirteen and a half millions of gallons for 1915-16. That is practically one-half they are entitled to.

7579. By the CHAIRMAN: Can you give the cost of a thousand gallons on the extensions as a whole, taking redemption into consideration and delivering water from the 30-inch main to the farmer on the average?—Obviously that depends on what they take. It would be 8s. if they took the amount we originally anticipated, but the Government reduced the price to 6s. They are allowed more water.

7580. The State then would still get nothing for the water from the 30-inch main?—They get nothing now on the rating system. The area is rated at 4s. per mile. £21 13s. 4d. is the cost to the farmer a year, that is interest and sinking fund, on the branch main, but the Government still gets nothing for the water out of the 30-inch main. That is shown in the annual report under the heading of "The financial results of operations for the year: income £11,124 expenses (exclusive of main conduit and head works) £11,533, deficit £409."

7581. By Mr. CLARKSON: That is a loss on the actual extensions?—That is so.

7582. By the CHAIRMAN: Your real reply is that the larger pipes are required to convey the water from the main for a longer distance?—Yes, an extension five miles long is more than twice the cost of