7673. It is not want of capital but the price of the water? —The price of water at 6s.a 1,000 is prohibitive. My storage tank hold between five and six thousand gallons and that is always there.

7674. By the CHAIRMAN: you have a wide acquaintance with extensions. What is the price of the water charged on the extensions?—I have heard it is more than 6s. a 1,000 outback but I am not sure that that is correct. I am given to understand as far as the Department is concerned that in 11 years the sinking fund cover the cost of supply of extensions.

7675. What is the price charged for water on the extensions?—6s.

7676. Do you think the settlers can profitable pay that price for water? Can you tell us why the settlers went in for water at that price ? —Because they were compelled and because they had not made provision in the shape of tanks and reservoirs.

7677. Would you say it was the settlers taking up land and not providing water?— They were induced to go on the land without providing those facilities. many of them went on the land of their own free will.

7678. You consider they did not count the cost and did not provide the water, and then the drought came along and they had no water, and in their extremity they applied to the Government for water to be put on at a price which they are have since discovered they cannot pay, and now they are applying for a reduction? —I think the State should make a reduction and bring all to the level of 2s 6ds. It is the State that should carry the burden. The farmer gets no more for his product.

7679. Have you considered the matter of 4d. rate charge?—If they have only a team of horses the rate hits them right through because they are using the value of the rate. I believe the average settler would be willing to take any reduction and the chances are that he might not find that a payable proposition. The average farmer would jump at anything that was a reduced rate, and he would be pleased to get it. The rate at Kellerberrin was reduced 2d. They thought the farmer would be able to pay that.

7680. what do you consider would be a fair rate for the State and the individual? —If you were on the 2s. 6d per 1,000 and carrying stock the rate would not matter so much. It would only matter until a man got stock.

7681. I take your answer to mean that with water at 2s 6d. you would not object to pay the 4d. rate?—Not where I was carrying stock.

7682 If you were on the sand plain could you pay it? —No, because it would not have the same carrying capacity. I have not had any experience on sand plains, and that being so , one does not care to give an opinion, but I do not think a sand plain would carry the rate.

7683. I gather you advocate placing settlers on mains or extensions no the one basis? —Yes, because it should be a national and an individual matter.

7684. I think some degree of responsibility attaches to the land owner who asked the Government to put the water on at 6s, and who had an opportunity of reflection? Does no responsibility attach to him?—From that standpoint the man took the chances and the Government also. I would not saddle the man any more than the Government. They both made a mistake.

7685. Some settlers have told us that responsible men would prefer to pay the rate as an insurance and other have asked us if it were possible to have the water laid on at 6s.?—No doubt. I have had requisition of that kind myself. The whole of the primary industries have artificial conditions. One of the chief is exorbitant tariff. I wanted to place before you a farmer's position, provided we were protectionists and believed the tariff to be a good thing. We have 25 per cent. or 30 per cent. to pay on machinery imported. If a man works on his farm alone he must have £500 worth of machinery. That is dead capital for 43 weeks out of the 52. There is no other business where capital is long, but in other walks of life machinery is placed in a fixed position, and is run, perhaps, by a belt, so the working parts carrying the vibrations of the rough surface of the soil, therefore, if his machinery is working night and day like a flour mill or a battery the present average life instead of being six years would be reduce to eight months. That point is not generally considered. If we were working constantly and had 25 0r 25 per cent. of machinery whose life was eight months compared with other lines bearing the same tariff which lasts for years he is handicapped. Then there is 2d per lb. on all duplicated parts and the life of the farmer's machine is decreased. Our duplicate part are in excess of those in any other walk of life, therefore, we are taxed again even on those parts which have to bear the friction in cultivating the soil. From our standpoint even if the tariff were good we are not in the same pudding as those. I do not know that any Federal member has brought this matter for ward in Melbourne, but I want our Government to realise, even supposing they are in favour of tariff reform, that we as farmers are on a different basis to those in any other walk of life. I have knowledge of farming machinery for 14 years. In the earlier stages 30 per cent. over the landed cost was considered the distribution cost, and the duplicate parts were supposed to carry tremendous profit be cause the number of duplicate sold had to bear the interest of all the duplicates stocked.

7686. If a merchant imported £100, 000 worth of duplicates to insure an adequate supply the season's tariffs would naturally have to carry the charges thereon?—Yes , but the increase of 2d.per lb. in the tariff. Look what it means to us.

7687. It seems to me indispensable, but I suppose we must have a moderate tariff to make us self supporting.

7688 It has to be borne in mind that if we went in for a free- trade tariff and succeeded in getting on to the world's basis and if America took control of our markets with no protective duty America might put the price up. They would simply kill our manufactures and such firms as McKay, Nicholson & Morrow, and others. Have you any idea of the cost to the farmer in getting this industry going?—I believe, according to Knibbs , if we paid the whole of the workmen now engaged in making agricultural machinery the same wages to do nothing we would be in pocket over the transaction.

7689 there is no doubt that is true? —The thing is put in a nutshell on page 44 of the Statistical Abstract.