THURSDAY, 25th JANUARY, 1917, 10 a.m. Present: J. O. Giles, Esq., Chairman. B. L. Clarkson, Esq., | H. H. Paynter, Esq., F. E. Venn, Esq. J. H. M. LEFROY, Lands Department Surveyor, examined:

7761. By the CHAIRMAN: We would like to know your estimate of the quantity of first, second, and third class land west and east of the fence at Cunderdin?—West of the rabbit fence at Cunderdin 15 per cent. I estimate first class, 25 per cent. second class, and 60 per cent. third class. East of that fence 35 per cent. first class, 40 per cent. second, and the balance third class. I have had a fairly wide experience, as I made the first survey in 1887 and several others since. I produce a map showing the levels of the country in the south-western division. The best rainfall is here (indicating), and there are possibilities in connection with water conservation. There are the catchment areas and the rainfall and soil shown. In this particular locality the rainfall is from 30 inches to 40 inches. It floods the country in winter and in summer the soil hardens. If the Government could be induced to reserve these areas as storage areas it would only involve a small amount of survey work in order to pick them out. Over here (indicating) are hills from 800 to 1,000 feet in height. Thus the water could be brought by gravitation to this point (indicating). But I do not think that any scheme of water conservation, so far as these points are concerned, would be successful if pumping were depended upon. There are possibilities of impounding large supplies and for the employment of water turbines. In winter 50 per cent. of the water could be lifted to these hills here and thence gravitated. The time will come when many thousands of acres in the Avon Valley will be made productive by such means at a minimum of cost, but it cannot be done by pumping as the cost would be prohibitive. Here is country from 500 to 700 feet in height marked green on the plan, but it would be impossible to use the water here at 2s. 6d. per thousand gallons. In order to grow lucerne the land must be flooded with six inches of water six times in six months. That is only possible given cheap water, and would mean the use of 816,000 gallons per acre. For vegetable growing that figure would have to be doubled. For growing fodder grassed about two-thirds of the amount necessary for lucerne would be required or, say, about half a million gallons. In India, where the finest irrigation systems in the world are situated, earth dams are used of ten times the capacity of the Mundaring Weir. Here we have ideal conditions as far as climate in concerned, and the long dry season when rapid growth prevails; but you have the soil in the one place and the water in a different situation altogether. It might be worth while to consider the advisableness of getting data from India as to the cost of their dams, but of course in that country labour is extremely cheap. Meantime, however, there can be no possible harm in reserving reservoir areas. I do not mean catchments. Take the Harvey, for instance, where many millions of tons of water run to waste every year; and there are Samson's brook, the Serpentine. and the Murray. Each of them possesses fine catchments, and the soil contains very little salt or magnesia, which of course is death to vegetation. I suggested some time ago to the Minister to send men out to earmark those sites. It is the catchment sites we want to reserve and not the catchment areas. For instance, in the Coolgardie catchment area there are about 200,000 acres still for irrigation purposed. It does not matter whether the settlers are inside the catchment or not.

7762. By Mr. CLARKSON: With your intimate acquaintance with the eastern country do you think the bulk of the land would lend itself to dam holdings?—There are lots of excellent holding ground in selected localities. Any of the forest country would hold well. For a time no doubt there would be a large soakage, but after that the ground would hold well. Fifty per cent. of the water is lost by evaporation; is lost at the present time, but if you have a large area of shallow water you will necessarily have great evaporation, while with deep water you get the minimum evaporation, while with deep water you get the minimum evaporation.

7763. (Witness then proceeded to explain the map brought for the information of the Committee.)

(The witness retired.)

WILLIAM DARTNALL JOHNSON, M.L.A., sworn and examined:

7764-5. By the CHAIRMAN: You have had a wide experience in connection with the supply of water to settlers and we would be very pleased if you would afford us information as the result of your experience?—I have had as wide an experience as could be obtained in the time both in the initial stages of the scheme and possibly to date. I might remark, judging from the evidence reported in the Press, that it does not appear to be as full as it might be, and most of the witnesses have lost sight of the fact that the extensions were put in as the result of public agitation amongst the farmers. None of them were put in