average for one man on 1,000 acres. If the State continues the policy of putting in supplies at eight-mile centres it assists the requirements of the individual farmer to a great extent. As the farmer grows he should make provision for himself.

7809. By Mr PAYNTER: That refers to where there is no water scheme?—It still applies to those using the water scheme, and as they cannot use all they are entitled to it shows that the provision is more than their requirements.

7810. By the CHAIRMAN: But they are carrying very little stock?—That is so.

7811. The water rate is so high on the extensions that we consider farmers cannot pay 6s. and that it would be better for them to put down dams or wells under proper supervision. That being so what supply would they need? Would the districts from, say, Morawa to Wickepin, inclusive, require a two-years' or one-year's supply and what is a two-years' supply?—A 2,000 yard dam 12 feet deep with proper drains. Farmers should be properly advised where to put the drains and catchments. That would last two years. We could provide a testing plant to test the site and the putting in of drains at a small cost. There is no use in a good tank and catchment unless the drains are good. On the other hand there is great trouble in new areas. After land is thrown open we usually send out and pick sites, and each settler wants it as near to him as possible so the bulk of the people have to be considered and other considerations are put aside. If it could be arranged that the water supplies were marked on the lithos where they were likely to be put it would lend value to the adjacent land and benefit those further out as they would get their blocks cheaper. It would be better for them to be marked before selection, particularly in regard to returned soldiers and other future settlement. (Mr Castilla): Too little importance is attached to the catchment; that and drains are more than half the battle. With good catchments you can still get a good supply, and because it is a drought for crops it is not necessarily a drought for a tank, and again it might be that a catchment might not be obtainable on every 1,000-acre block.

7812. By the CHAIRMAN: We were discussing a 12ft. 2,500 yard dam and the question arose, was that a two years' supply? My own contention was that we could not call it a two years' supply as that would involve a 4,000-yard dam?—Given a perfect catchment 2,500 should suffice, but a catchment may be anything from a corrugated iron roof to a sandplain. For instance, at Wongan there is one drained on a rock. The drain ran from a distance of half a mile away.

7813. By Mr CLARKSON: According to the catchment the officers of the Department concerned in advancing the money would decide according to the catchment what size was necessary/—(Mr Neujhar) : If you increase the size of your tank you will increase your capital outlay. You could get good catchments to fill a 2,000-yard tank, but a 4,500-yard tank is harder to locate. Referring to recommendation No.8 of the Commission in this draft. I would suggest an addendum reading:—"Assistance can be provided with very little additional cost from the men already in the field in regard to the selection of sites, catchments and the protection of catchments and the construction of drains and banks, and by-wash to the tank." Such a system would fit in with the work we are doing at the present time.

7814. By the CHAIRMAN: I would like you to criticise the first paragraph —(Mr Neujhar): I would reduce it to 2,000 yards where the catchment is good; up to 3,999 where the catchment is inferior, provided it is governed by Clause 8, and it would be as safe as a house.

7815. The idea was to substitute a two-years' supply and no reference to the dam?—2,000 yards will provide two years' supply from a good catchment provided an experienced man chooses the catchment and that the drains are put in and kept in good order. If a dam is filled the first year and the drains are neglected the settler should be dealt with in some way because he is not helping himself.

7816. By Mr PAYNTER: They should be subject to annual inspections?—I think it would be better for the water supply men to deal with this matter because they are more au fait with that sort of work.

7817. By Mr CLARKSON: You were asked to criticise it, but in the form it is now it was not passed by us. We have altered it to read "In cases where dam sinking advances are required.....at least two years' supply"?—(Mr Castilla): We would be able to judge from the class of catchment what constituted a two years' supply. I have known a sharp thunderstorm of half an inch to fill up a dam in mid-summer.

7818 By Mr PAYNTER: Should not the catchment govern the size of the dam?—Certainly, and if you make a dam too large—80 per cent. of a thousand-acre block have a catchment that would fill a 2,000-yard tank, but if you increase it to 3,000 or 4,000 you can knock it down 50 per cent. You would eliminate one half your agricultural area. If you are going in for size to make your supply you must make your catchment good and the drains good, and even in a drought if it is looked after water should be in the tank. If your evaporation is six feet and your dam is filled at the end of July, and the draw goes on and you have rain in September, that allows you 6ft. of evaporation and there is still a 6ft. draw in the tank. (Mr Neujhar): A dam is meant more for horses and domestic use, but 50 per cent. of the farms could locate stock water somewhere and sheep do well on that. If you are going to mass sheep on a dam you will settle the proposition at once. I think a farmer should be advised, if he intends to have more than 100 or 200 sheep, to provide stock water in addition to the tank. A 2,000-yard 12ft. deep dam in a good catchment would be a splendid proposition. Most of them in the northern district have had 800 up to 1,200 yard tanks, and they have subsisted on that in the past. We could provide a circular and diagram for settlers showing drains and how to make them and how to use the excavated material. (Witness demonstrated the tester used for the salinity of water.)

7819. By the CHAIRMAN: What is a safe depth to stop at in excavating a dam?—If it is clay and there is 18 inches below you are safe, but if it is pervious stuff the salt will soon be brought to the surface.

(The witness retired.)