ground into splendid condition whereas if you delay in a week it makes all the difference between success and failure, It might give misleading results which cause loss to the farmer. There are only a few experiments you can carry out on farms. There is the question of the different varieties of wheat which may be grown. I am putting the worst side of the farmers' ease to you and I may tell you that I initiated the farmers' blocks in New South Wales, therefore I am not opposed to the suggestion which you are making but I am pointing out the limitations. Take two varieties of wheat grown by two farmers. For some reason one farmer does not conduct the experiment properly and he may say it was not good, he would sooner have another variety; whereas the other farmer might think it was good. Suppose for the sake of argument you conduct an experiment as to cultivation. You cultivate a fallow plot and another plot you do not. On the cultivated fallow plot a man might get worse results than on the other plot, and he would come to the conclusion that fallow was not good, but as to trying different varieties these experimental plots are good. This year experiments are being tried with acclimatised and un-acclimatised seed and we shall see that result.

8790. What is your opinion of the settlers in the wheat belt as a whole? - On the whole my feeling is one of admiration. There are some who ought to be taken off the land; they will not make a success. Others come through the difficulties and make a success and they should be encouraged to stay on. They have the local experience and the energy, and they are attached to the land and every effort should be made to keep them there. There are others who for various causes, not altogether their own, who are failures. Some men have no natural administrative ability; they ought to be off the land. I have in my mind the ease of man who never follows. As soon as his crops off he goes to sleep as it were until it starts to rain again and until it is time for seeding.

8791. You think they have done well on the whole considering the extraordinary difficulties which beset them? - I do, and most are well worthy of encouragement. I would just like to say that they have great difficulties. They have suffered from hardship and are still suffering, and many of them are inclined to give up. It seems to me the best way to view the situation is this: What position will their children be in? Instead of having to make the payments of machinery out of their income they will be well supplied with machinery and the current rents will be all they will have to pay. The other expenses will have all been met and paid for by their fathers. They will be in a better position than the present occupiers.

8792. What is your opinion as to the land laws in regards to settlement? - I think they are most generous as far as I have had to do with them but I have not had much. The assistance the settlers in this state I have been to or of any place I have read of.

 8793.  The South Australian Government sell their C.P. land to-day on about the following terms:-The first four years they pay nothing; the fifth to the 10th year they pay 2 per cent. interest. and from the 10th to the 30th they pay for the land. For the first 10 Years they are really called on to pay nothing. They put the Whole of their capital and time into the land, but they are not assisted by liberal state advances. Which do you prefer, that system or our system?--One has to look at it from two standpoints. I would really prefer a modification of both systems. I probably would not make such liberal payment for improvements is made to the full value and where the idea is to enable the settler to earn what he could outside, the only way is to encourage him to expect something in the form of rent. It seems to me the better plan would be to give more attention to selecting the applicant, and these applicants should first have shown that they have exercised some thrift and have some knowledge, and how to spend it by showing that they have saved some of it. Of course exceptional cases would have to be dealt with specially. Any man who wants a block of land should be prepared to put some of the money be has saved into it.

8794. That makes a more self-reliant settler?--Yes, That is the only way you can depend on ensuring be is thrifty and has a knowledge of money. After all farming is a business. I would prefer not to pay the full Value for improvements.

8795. What do you think of the Agricultural Bank?--It is a most liberal institution but has been abused in some eases.

8796. Do you not think the time has arrived when it should be run on commercial lines? - I have not given any thought to that. What I have in mind is that when a man is building a farm himself the object should be to give him sufficient money to keep his family in reasonable comfort; not more than that. The principle in the past has been to pay the settler the full value for improvements on the understanding that he will pay it back, but that has not been substantiated. I adopted that plan in connection with the development of the Esperance lands.

8797. During our tour of the country we found there had been very little expert opinion available in many districts. In various districts problems had cropped up in the course of settlement, and the settlers seem to think they might have had more assistance. What would be your reply to that aspect of settlement in this sate? - I would not have had sufficient men.

8798. You did not have staff enough? - No, in the first year I Traveled 22,000 miles myself. The settlers were so new to the position that they wanted advice on matters which in other States would not be regarded as expert advise. They wanted advise on the ordinary operations of farming.

8799. One thing that stood out principally was their total want of knowledge of improving the morel country?--No advice could have saved them from that as the whole thing was an experiment. I regard the morel country as a problem that should be investigated. I say there is rich land which has some difficulties which render it unfit for cropping in wet years. I advice a man to keep off it if he has got other land. There is also the problem of dealing with wodgil land.

8800. You have some wodgil land in the State farm at Merredin? - Yes.

8801. How long is it since you discovered it was Wodgil land? - Only about a year ago. I am not in contact with the operations. The object i have in