view in regard to farms is this : I am aiming to get at the farm managers who will have a knowledge of the principle underlying agriculture, and who are in a position because of their education, training, and standing to be advisers to the farmers as to local conditions. We cannot get these men ; we have to train them.

8802. Going back to the question that has prompted this discussion the visiting farmers in new agricultural areas, there are so many problems brought before us. Men had cultivated at the wrong time, they had ploughed at the wrong time, they did not understand the principles of fallow. Of course it was quite impossible for anyone without a complete staff to have identified himself with a large body of settlers? - Yes, and I was endeavouring to deal with it by providing the right type of man in the different districts.

8803. Do you think a development which is largely experimental in the State up to the present might be availed of to remedy that state of things, that the inspectors appointed by the Industries Assistance Board could be amalgamated with the Department of Agriculture. Could they not act as disseminators and give advice? - They should do so, and my reply, which emphasis how much I am now in accord with your view, is that about a year ago I realised this when I was connected with the Industries Assistance Board, and I advised the Minister that the inspectors should be the means of disseminating this information and that they should have power to see that it was carried out; that these inspectors should be brought to Perth and receive certain technical instruction at the university. That was done; a number were brought to Perth and given technical instruction by departmental officers and professors to ground them in some of the principles, and the idea that this had to be carried out each year. It was only carried out the one year, but that is the proper course to adopt. I am looking forward to the time when the inspectors will be recruited from the men who have been students, and who have received further experience, and who have become inspectors if the Industries Assistance Board.

8804. We saw Dr. Cameron in Melbourne, and he claims that it was difficult to find young men who had been students and who were competent to do this work with employment in Australia? - We cannot do our best because we have not the men to do it with. It is no use importing men because take the men we have been importing ; they have been failures. We want to get young men from the State farms and give them further instruction in management. First of all they have to be educated on the principles of agriculture, and then we have to find out if they have got to the age of maturity, say, 18 years, they would be instructed in practical work, and in administration. The department cannot get me to do work properly unless I have men who know how to do it. These men I was going to put on farms as cadets to work as labourers, and then subsequently to put them on as experimentalists and from that to inspectors.

8805. By Mr VENN : What publications have you made of your investigations; what about the man at Waderin who wanted to know the kind of wheat? - We published information through the Press.

8806. Could not the information go thorough the inspector? - Quite so and I took an opportunity to see that it would go through the inspectors, because I wrote to the Industries Assistance Board on the matter, and my suggestion is being acted on.

8807. There is the ignorant farmer who never seems to read anything unless it comes from the inspector? - My association with the Industries Assistance Board gave me an opportunity of getting in touch with the farmers who needed assistance most, and I had the power of compelling a man to do what he was told, because of the assistance I had given them. In the wheat belt six men out of every ten agree that power is a good thing but they do not adopt it, that is the trouble. When I was appointed to the Industries Assistance Board and before the Act was passed, I arranged that the schedule should contain some provisions to provide against this difficulty, and then, if I told a man that he must fallow, I would have the power to insist upon him carrying it out. By working the Act through the inspectors, it is known what has been done.

8808. That information should be made available to the farmers through the inspectors? - Inspectors should really be more in touch with what is going on than they are at the present time.

8809. By Mr. PAYNTER : What was the position of the farmer in this State when you arrived here? - At first he appeared to be in a happy position. The general impression was that the natural conditions were so good that he was on the high road to wealth with a little trouble. Because of that he was not in a receptive mood. I have talked about fallowing and improved methods of farming, but it was like only pouring water on a ducks back. Then we had the drought, which altered his attitude altogether. He then became receptive, in fact he was despondent at first. My first visit to the country was along the Merredin line, where the settlers were wondering if they should give u[p their holdings, and the banks whether they should support the settlers any longer. I told the people that the proposition was a sound one with good methods, and later on learned that my visit had kept them on the land, that it had had a good effect in that it caused the financial institutions to be more hopeful and continue their assistance to the settlers. There are some settlers who regard any man who is not following the plough as possessing no knowledge at all about the business.

8810. Do you consider that the continuation of the wheat pool would be an advantage to the farming community? - It is absolutely essential just now, though not so essential, possibly , after the war is over. It is, however, a co-operative method of disposing of the product of the land, and as I consider that co-operation is the best thing for the farmer, I am in favour of the pool being continued after the war, if practicable.

8811. Would you give us an outline of the inauguration of the scheme and your connection with it? - The first thing I knew about it was that the Minister told me he had to go to Melbourne owing to shipping difficulties and to the possibility that we could not get our wheat away. He told me I was to accompany him and I did so. It was quite patent that shipping was scarce. The result of the discussion with the merchants was that we learned they would only be prepared to buy wheat from the