THURSDAY,3rd MAY,1917. (At Perth.)

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Present: J.O. Giles, Esq. (Chairman). H.H. Paynter, Esq. F.E.Veen , Esq.

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HUGH OLDHAM, M.I.C.E., Engineer for Agricultural Areas Water Supply Department, sworn and examined:

8828A. By the CHAIRMAN: How long have you been connected with the W.A. Water Supply Department? - Since 1896, 21 years.

8828B. And how long have you been associated with the water supply in country districts? - Off and on during that time. During the earlier part I was connected more especially with the Goldfields district supplies.

8829. Can you compare the scheme of extensions of the goldfields water supply with that of each settler furnishing his own supply when you consider that the Government charge 4d. per acre for goldfields water supply water plus £5 for homestead fee. In other words, a settler who farms 1,000 acres, what is his position if he pays the State £21 13s 4d. for water reticulated by pipes extending from the mains as compared as compared with his position if he provided his own water supply? - For an established farmer the connection with the goldfields main is a much more complete supply than he is likely to get otherwise, but the extent to which that supply can be given limited, and further, the impost is very heavy indeed. My reason for saying that is that the pipe scheme is absolutely assured. When a man has that scheme he can work his land to its fullest capacity with regard to stock. On the other hand if he relies on reservoirs it is very necessary for him to keep a good deal up his sleeve, and I do not think he could develop his land to its full extent safely under a local supply without the supply were obtained from wells. Then of course the case would be different.

8830. By Mr VEEN: There is very little chance in the eastern areas of obtaining it by wells; it has been well tested? - Yes,

8831. They have turned the well system down? - We have wells scattered all through, and the further north you go the greater possibility of well water.

8831A. By Mr PAYNTER: Do you consider that the goldfields water supply can be looked upon as an assured permanent supply? - I think so, it is run under a sinking fund arrangement.

8832. I mean as regards the water? - Yes. The sinking fund is accumulating, and by the time the plant and pipes comes to a state of obsolescence there will be money to reconstruct, therefore it is on a permanent basis. The difficulty with the Coolgardie scheme is that very little more country can be covered at 4d. per acre. If it were necessary to go much further north or south special pumping plant would have to put it in, and that would put up the cost.

8833. The extensions are limited? - Yes, the extensions are made at the present time as far as the pressure that exists in the pipes will carry the water.

8834. By Mr VEEN: That is why you could not take in Yorkrakine without pumping? - Yes. I presume when in South Australia the commission visited Barossa and other schemes. Those schemes are fairly big and are half national. I think the Government only gets a return of about 2½ or 3 per cent.

8835. By the CHAIRMAN: Not that? - Perhaps less on the outlay covering depreciation and expense, which probably would come to 8 or 10 per cent. Those propositions therefore are State aided. If the same system applied here water could be pumped north and south from Coolgardie from the Coolgardie main for some distance, but only under those conditions.

8836. By Mr PAYNTER: Do you think the water from the scheme was the only means of keeping the people on the land? - If the pipe scheme had not been there those people would have had more or less efficient arrangements made as all the others have. There is very little difference between the class of country. They could all have had dams or wells but I consider while pipe water can be obtained from the permanent supply at reasonable cost it is far ahead, in a way, of dams.

8837. By Mr VEEN: The cost of dam water comes pretty close to the pipe water? - Pretty close. you will notice that a great deal of the work in connection with dams might be done by the farmer himself, and that would not be such a heavy capital load on the land as the other. There are records showing a minimum rainfall of about five inched at Mangowine, and there is very little doubt that the very low rainfall area is fairly extensive; consequently, without some very definitely permanent arrangement could be made in the way of large dams, no local service supply could be compared with the pipe supply with absolute security every year. (Plan produced.) My proposal is to work on a two years' storage arrangement with a covered tank and hardened catchment. That is a good working system. The two years' supply is to cover a dry cycle. As to the scheme water, I fancy the cost would be