it pays to find money for. If a man's request is reasonable he will get his house so far as the bank is concerned. There are many instances in which money has been found to build a house with.

8930A. We have had complaints from clients of yours that they could not get money for a house? - Just now the banks may not be anxious to incur fresh advances for house building if a man can possibly postpone it.

8931. Statements have been made during the last year or two that farming is in rather a deplorable way, and extreme steps require to be taken by the Government to re-establish the industry. Do you think that is necessary? - I think we are going through the usual process of evolution with regard to farming, just as other countries have gone through. I cannot see anything in the statement at all. Farming will undoubtedly make good in Western Australia because the conditions are suitable, but there will be disasters in the process, and the men who cannot farm will get out, and those who can will remain. I think we take too serious a view of State aid, and pay too little attention to self-reliance. We should cultivate that more.

8932. Plainly, then, you do not think there is anything particularly wrong with farming? - These things have to evolve in their natural order. We had a heavy knock-out during the drought, for the reason that a large percentage of the farmers were in the pioneering stage, and consequently had no reserves to fall back upon.

8933. Have your bank's collections been satisfactory, all things considered, since 1914? - Yes. but we cannot compare our business with that of the Industries Assistance Board, because this board takes different risks. We have nothing to complain of. 8934. The Government have asked us to report on any steps or methods which might be taken to improve the condition of the industry. Can you off-hand make any suggestions in that direction? - I have indicated an important one with the wheat, but it is a very big problem, and I would not care to express an opinion off-hand. 8935. Do you think our system of land tenure is satisfactory? I think it is the most liberal land tenure in the world. I think the Government have done as much as any Government are entitled to do in the way of land tenures to assist farming. We practically give the land away. I think that a man who cannot pay the present Government rates will never be able to do any good at farming. I do not know any place in the world where the conditions are so good, and the State should not be asked for further liberality.

8936. By Mr, PAYNTER: Perhaps in regard to extending the time of payment? - That might be arranged so far as poison areas are concerned.

8937. By the CHAIRMAN: One of our difficulties is that we are not likely to attract settlers from the rest of Australia? - But we have already attracted a great number from other parts of Australia.

8938. We are not attracting much population from the other side of the world, and if we are to continue putting men on the land we must make the terms liberal? - I think if we get two or three good years and leave things alone we shall not grumble at our progress.

8939. Do you find your relations with your clients cordial, all things considered? - They are very satisfactory.

8940. By Mr. PAYNTER: What do you think of the rates charged for water supplied from the scheme? - Our experience is that farmers complain about those charges being heavy, but we have to remember that they have been saved a good deal of capital which would have been involved in putting down dams. The charges all round, of course, are heavy, amounting to another Government land rent, but the water has been a perfect godsend along the Eastern railway. I do not, however, see how the Government could be expected to provide water to the settlers at Perth rates.

(The witness retired.) ________________

WILLIAM HERVERT EVANS, Wheat Merchant, Perth, sworn and examined:

8941. By the CHAIRMAN: I believe you have had very long experience in connection with the wheat trade? - Yes, since 1888, nearly 30 years in Victoria, New South Wales, and Western Australia.

8942. In pursuance of our investigations we are brought at many points in touch with bulk handling. It is universally popular amongst farmers who think it will reduce their costs, but as to details and the precise advantages they have little actual knowledge. What do you assign will be the advantages to be secured by the State by the adoption of bulk handling? - Great efficiency.

8943. In what respect? - Better protection of the grain, better coping with the labour difficulty.

8944. Is the labour difficulty a very pronounced factor? - It is a most serious factor, particularly during the last 12 months.

8945. It is getting worse? - Not only in getting men, but in getting value for what you pay.

8946. What was the cost f.o.b. of putting from the trucks 10 years ago and the cost to-day? - Nobody has any experience of trucks 10 years ago, but 20 years ago labour from farmers' wagons to the ship in Victoria would probably be about half what it is to-day.

8947. What do you think it is to-day from truck to ship, f.o.b.? - I am not prepared to give an answer without working out the figures.

8948. Could you supply us with the figures? - I will endeavour to do so.

8949. Are there any other big savings that would be effected? - No, those are the major savings.

8950. Efficiency and the saving of labour? - The saving of labour, the saving of bags, and the better handling of the grain - the better protection of the grain.

8951. Is the proposal one that commends itself to the merchants? - I personally have never had the case properly put before me. In Victoria they had a royal commission on the bulk handling of grain, and neither I nor any one connected with my farm or any other wheat merchant as far as I know was called to give evidence.

8952. That seems an extraordinary position? - The reason is this: All these commissions were appointed with men with more or less preconceived ideas. They were going to prove their case; they did not go into the matter with open minds.