in all charters of vessels, and if the vessel has not arrived in the chartering port, then the charter is cancelled. The cancellation date in the charter is generally three weeks after the date the vessel is expected in port.

8984. By Mr VENN : Do you think the freight in bulk would be more than the bag wheat, or less?- The general opinion seems to be it will be more, for one or two reasons. One reason is that sailing ships will be knocked out. You could not ship bulk wheat in sailers; you would be confined to steamers, and then every vessel would have to be specially fitted up.

8985. By the CHAIRMAN : I understand that most of the steamers carry compartments timber as part of their equipment?- They only carry what they call shifting boards, that is boards which are put up longitudinally in the centre of the hatches; they are lashed to the stanchions so that when the ship is lying over the whole body of the cargo will not shift to one side. But with bulk wheat I do not know how vessels are fitted for it; they will have to have holds specially fitted in compartments.

8986. Can you tell us what is the percentage of waste in Western Australia; suppose you buy five million bushels, what is the waste in the bagging and stacking system?- I have not gone into that. We usually, under normal conditions, find it not very heavy. You have often seen it stated that there is a large waste, and to anyone who sees wheat lying about on the floor, possibly it may look a big waste, but that is more apparent than real. It does not take a great deal of wheat, spilt on the floor, to look a large quantity. But all this wheat is swept up afterwards. It is caused, perhaps, by a bag bursting. I could not give you an exact percentage, but there is not a great deal of waste. Where the waste does come in is in seasons like we had in 1915-16, where there were the mice plague conditions.

8987. That would be saved under bulk handling conditions?- Yes.

8988. By Mr VENN : Say that under the bulk handling scheme a shipment of wheat is sent to Port Elizabeth and they have no means of discharging, what would happen?- They would have to bag it up.

8989. At Liverpool they are receiving most of the Canadian wheat, and therefore they have built the granaries?- Yes, but it has to be bagged at Liverpool to be delivered up country. I may state that I have only expressed my views, and not the views of the firm.

(The witness retired.)

HENRY JOSEPH STIRLING TAYLOR, Manager of the Westralian Farmers, sworn and examined:

8990. By the CHAIRMAN :Have you had any experience of practical agriculture?- Yes.

8991. For how long?- Between three and four years.

8992. In what district?- Kellerberrin, and some little experience in South Australia. I travelled through South Australia, that is the agricultural areas, before settling in Kellerberrin, to get some knowledge of their ideas.

8993. As a delegate?- No. I decided to take up land in Western Australia, when I was in Victoria. I had originally lived in Western Australia, and after remaining in Victoria a couple of years, I decided to return to this State and take up land, and on the way over I travelled through the agricultural areas of South Australia.

8994. Do you still hold land at Kellerberrin?- Yes.

8995. You took it up about 1912?- I bought it in 1910.

8996. Then you had experienced to the full the effects of the droughts of 1910 and 1914?- Yes.

8997. You are aware those droughts were prejudicial to land settlement in this State?- Yes, but they are not responsible for the disfavour, I think, of land in this State, not entirely but contributed largely. The droughts are not wholly responsible but they are very largely.

8998. What other reasons have you for the present unsatisfactory conditions of affairs?- The economic conditions generally, which render it nearly impossible for me, at any rate, to grow wheat at a profit. My position is practically the same as that of hundreds of farmers. I blame the tariff, and the conditions generally to which the farmer is subjected.

8999. Is the land too poor and are the terms too high?- The land is too dear, the railway rates are oppressive, and other taxes are too high. I am not speaking of the income tax which does not affect the farmer. A few years ago the Commissioner of Taxation said that a small percentage of farmers paid income tax, but these men were not simply wheat growers. They were dubbed farmers because most of their gross income came from farming pursuits. In that category he placed the City farmers. The farmers supplies cost him far too much. In fact many of his necessaries, such as machinery, cost twice as much as they ought. It was brought out in evidence before the Tariff Commission Inquiry of 1906 that the Massey-Harris harvester was invoiced at £38 0s. 3d. This price showed a merchandising profit to the manufacturer. The importing charges were £25 10s. and the selling charges £17 16s. 11d., making a total of £81 7s. 2d.

9000. Where do you establish the fact that a machine can be sold for half the cost if it costs £38 0s. 3d. in Canada and £25 10s. to land?- At that time the Newport workshops manufactured three harvesters on, I believe, the Sunshine type at about £41 each.

9001. I learned in Melbourne that that price was £46?- My impression is that it was £41 in 1906. It was said that if these machines had been made by the hundred, as was the case at Sunshine, the cost could have been reduced very considerably. I think that May Bros. and the International companies agreed upon a certain selling price. The price of the Australian-made machine was to be a little in advance of that of others, but the Australian lifted his price so that he could add a decent margin of profit to his landed cost, and that he could take full advantage of the tariff and get a little more than he would otherwise get under ordinary competition.

9002. Taking your figures of £41, do you think this is a fair statement?- I do.

9003. Do you not remember that the shop burden and the overhead expenses were excluded?- I do not. We ought to assume that if Newport