cement pan found at varying depths, from just below the surface to 3ft. below the surface. There is nothing but sheer white sand for 3ft. and then you come upon a ferruginous rubble which is generally called ironstone gravel. You can hardly get a pick into it.

9054. By Mr. PAYNTER: Can that soil be built up? - It can be done, but at what cost? You can start out with white sea sand, put it in a box and fill it up with manure and make very good soil, but at what cost? You can build up any soil but what is it going to cost you? It is not a payable proposition. Like some of the orchards in the hills; they are nothing but so-called ironstone gravel. People have asked me if this soil cannot be built up. People have asked me if this soil cannot be build up. I have said "Yes, but what is it going to cost you?"

9055. By the CHAIRMAN: Are there any other matters you would like to bring before our notice? - There are a lot of matters I would like to talk to you about if you have the patience to listen to me. I would like to talk about the direction in which I think science and the scientific teaching of knowledge should be of value to the farmer. I look at it purely as an agricultural chemist and I look at it as to how farmers can be assisted, as they are not assisted now, in agricultural knowledge. You asked me particularly about the Eastern districts. I have spoken of the conservation of moisture by humus and fallow. These things ought to be studied to see which is the better way to conserve the moisture, and if the loss in fallowing counteracts with gain that is made in certain seasons. The question of the increase of humus is bound up with the question of green manuring and rotations. That will have to be experimented on to see how far it can be practicable in the Eastern districts. The conservation of nitrogen has been referred to. The bacteriology of the soils, and how the nitrogen may be increased or preserved is very important. The question of the improvement of wheat for the dry districts, that can be done partly by selection and breeding. That is a matter which I suppose Mr. Sutton has dealt with. It is very instructive to know what is being done and has been done in the past, and it indicates how a further advance can be made. There is also the question as to whether, instead of ordinary wheat, it would pay better in some districts to grow wheats of the macaroni class, the Durum wheats. It is very instructive to know what has been done in America in that direction. A huge commercial market has been opened up in America by the cultivation of these Durum wheats. This market has been developed side by side with the cultivation of these wheats.

9056. It is a class of wheat which is not suitable for ordinary milling? - Yes; but in America they have developed a market while they were developing the crop, and it has had a great effect in America in many ways. It has affected the dietary, which is a very important thing. It is really absurd how little we use cereals in this country, but so far as we do use them they are American cereals. Take the ordinary articles which we use at the breakfast table - "grape nuts" and "post toasties," etc., etc., all these things are American. The macaronis and the semolinas, and many of the digestive meals are or can be made from Durum wheats. These are being developed in America and a market is being made for them. Then there is the improvement of wheat which will probably take place by a study of soil conditions. Then, again, it is an important thing if we can improve the strength of our wheat. There has been a lot of argument about this. I am an advocate of strong wheat, but people say it does not pay because it will not give you the same yield. The attempt should be made to improve the yield at the same time that you improve the quality of the wheat. Too much attention, probably, has been paid to one aspect of the subject, that is to the growing of new varieties of wheat, without regard to the alteration of soil conditions. They are growing different varieties of wheat but they are not attempting to alter the soil conditions. Then there is also the important question for the Eastern districts, especially in relation to mixed farming, the need for experimentation in the improvement of natural fodders, or introduction of new suitable fodders, for supporting stock in the summer. That is a subject which is being studied in the Eastern States a good deal. The whole question of mixed farming must depend on what can be done in the way of improving natural fodders, or introducing fodders from other countries. What have they done in America in this direction? To-day America is growing on some of its most arid regions the Australian saltbush with great success. America has gone all over the world in search of varieties of saltbush and has done well with it. Then there is the study of the salinity of the soil. That is of importance. A great deal of discussion has taken place in this direction in connection with the Esperance land question which I do not wish to touch upon here, but there have been numbers of instances that have come under my notice of soils about which farmers have said there seemed to be something wrong. They could not grow crops. In a great many instances I have shown that the proportion of salt is too high, and no other cause need be looked for.

9057. By Mr. PAYNTER: Is there any method of overcoming that? - By draining. The distribution of salt in salt land is peculiar. You may get one patch where land is peculiar. You may get one patch where land is absolutely sterile with salt and 10 yards away you may find the land good. You get the salt most unevenly distributed over areas, and there is land where there are so many bad patches as to render the return from the area valueless. If you get a low rainfall and flat country there is no means of draining, and the best thing is to keep off it. The very salt in the land holds moisture and the land looks nice at times. In semi-arid soil you may get a bigger accumulation of plant food but there is also apt to be an accumulation of deleterious salts. The patch character of the soil throughout is one of the difficulties of the State. That difficulty could be studied and met by means of a soil survey, and I have suggested this previously, but it was thought that it would mean a huge expense, and the launching of a big scheme, that it was too big a matter to undertake. But the estimated cost is not so heavy. It could start on a comparatively small scale and gradually extend. By this means you would get permanent record of the soils that would be of great value. Many difficulties of settlement here could have been diminished if the areas had been first surveyed in the manner I suggest.

9058. A preliminary soil survey might not be a big affair? - One of the first indications to be studied