would be the timber. I have a map in my office which was prepared years ago by the late Mr. Woodward, based on the timber growth which practically constitutes a preliminary or superficial survey of the soils of Western Australia. It does not give indications of the more detailed characteristics of the soils, and a superficial survey may be very misleading. There is at present too much tendency to look at the soil only from the point of view of what it will grow in the way of wheat.

9059. By Mr. PAYNTER : Would a soil survey embrace particulars as to what other crops could be grown on the soil ? - Yes, on many instances. Where that information is not immediately available some judiciously managed experiments here and there with ruling types of soil would throw considerable light upon the question. A great deal more could be done by experimental plots on farms already established. Much can be sone by having the co-operation of the farmers. But such experiments must be carefully planned and technically controlled.

( The witness retired.)
  
                                                   ----------------------

JOHN CLEAVE, jun., Assistant Inspector of the Western Australian Bank, sworn and examined :

9060. By the CHAIRMAN : How long have you been in Western Australia ? - For 21 years.

9061. Have you had a fairly comprehensive experience of the country districts ? - Not in the country districts so much as in the goldfields districts and in the South - West. I have not been in the farming areas at all. I have been in the head office of the inspectorial branch for the past eight years. The accounts of country clients have, however, come under our notice. The whole of the country branch work comes under our supervision.

9062. Are you able to express an opinion as to the progress or lack of progress or lack of progress that the farmers in the wheat belt are making ? - In the drought year many of them were in a poor way. It subsequently became necessary to adopt a scheme, under which a number of farmers came, by which we worked in conjunction with their creditors and practically handled the distribution of the crops. There were farmers who were getting into a tight corner at that time, but many of them have shown considerable improvement in their positions since then. No doubt the 1915 -16 and 1916 -17 seasons, together with the handling of the accounts and supervision of the banks largely accounted for this improvement.

9063. Those two seasons were not really good ones ? - No, but by comparison with other seasons they were very moderate. In some cases they may be said to have been good.

9064. The system adopted by your bank was, I take it, analogous to that adopted by the National Bank and the Industries Assistance Board ? - It was on very similar lines. The bank took a bill of sale over the man's crop, and we advanced the money to put in and take off the crop for the season only. The crop returns passed through our hands and that of the Government wheat scheme, and we paid ourselves the advance we had made. Then the machinery merchants came in for a preferential claim upon the proceeds immediately afterwards, for one year's hire upon the implements. After that the balance was divided into two equal parts. Fifty per cent. came to the bank, 25 per cent. of which went towards the reduction of old debts, and the other half towards the farmer's maintenance during the following season, through it was never sufficient for his requirements. The balance, 50 per cent., was distributed amongst the old creditors. Our scheme differed from that of the National Bank in that we left our customers to distribute the money equitably amongst their creditors. This year our scheme will be much on the same lines, except that the farmer will take his seed and feed out of the crop, which we think is a proper charge to make upon it.

9065. Do you make your borrowing clients apply the best methods of cultivation ? - Yes. Our branch managers necessary have to oversee that, as far as possible. They are instructed to inspect the farmer's operation at frequent intervals in order to see that he is doing his best and not wasting his money.

9066. You make it fairly clear to the settler that, if he does not work on the best lines, the bank may reconsider the question of the assistance they have rendered ? - Yes. It is in the interests of all concerned that the money advanced should be wisely spent.

9067. Do you insist upon a man having proper protection for his implements and machinery ? - The housing question comes under the branch managers, who have to see that all due care is taken of machinery and stock. If these are not looked after the bank might be called upon to supply money for the purchase of new machinery.

9068. Do you endeavour to see that the horses and stock are properly looked after ? - The branch manager is expected to exercise general supervision over all the farming operations. He is expected to visit his borrowing customers and see that nothing is wasted.

9069. Exercising, as you do, a benevolent compulsion in regard to the farmers crop, etc., what steps do you take to see that the farmers wife is properly housed ? - That is a matter which, to a certain extent, depends on the farmer himself. When a farmer asks for an advance upon his land, it is assumed that he is making due provision for a suitable home for his wife and family to live in. In many cases the farmers have had a rough time in regard to their habitation, but the bank would give every consideration to an application in connection with housing, and every case would be dealt with on its merits.

9070. Is it not just as much an integral part of a good system of agriculture to see that the farmer's wife is placed in the best conditions, that the family may grow up attracted to and not repelled by agricultural pursuits, and that we may have on the soil and not detest it ? - I think the general tendency for the farmer is not to go in for elaborate expense, so far as housing is concerned. I do not think any bank would urge money upon a farmer for an elaborate dwelling. We have never had any complaints from customers that they are not properly housed. Any one asking money for this purpose would be reasonably treated.

9071. Have you found that the position of the farmers in this State has improved or gone back in the last 10 years ? - I think it has improved. There are cases in which farmers have gone back, but I think these are exceptions. When our farmers can