THURSDAY, 10th May, 1917 (At Perth.) Present: J.O. Giles, Esq., Chairman. B.L. Clarkson, Esq., H.H. Paynter, Esq., F.E. Venn, Esq.

ROBERT CECIL CLIFTON, I.S.O., Under Secretary for Lands, sworn and examined: 9077. To the CHAIRMAN: In December, 1883, I Sub-Collector of Customs. I joined the Lands Department in 1880, and I was appointed under Secretary for Lands in 1890. To a very large extent I have seen the whole rise of agriculture in this State. The area of land selected in 1891 was 85,000 acres, and the area taken up has been progressing ever since that time. In 1908-9 the maximum area taken up in one year was reached, for in that year two million acres were alienated, that is, during the financial year, from July to June.

9078. By the CHAIRMAN: Has there been a retrogression in land settlement since 1908-9?— For the next four years the falling-off was great. In 1913-14 it got below the million. The figures are: 1908-9, two million odd acres were selected; 1909-10, 1,900,000 acres; 1910-11, 1,900,000 acres; 1911-12, 1,900,00 acres; 1912-13, 1,400,000; 1913-14, 998,000 acres; 1914-15, 500,000 acres; 1915-16, 308,000 acres.

9079. Can you ascribe any reason for the falling-off in settlement since 1912-13?—I think the bad seasons have had a great deal to do with it, and the war no doubt has had a very serious effect.

9080. What was the original price at which the State sold land, and roughly what were the conditions?— It varied at different times. In the early days it was fixed at £1 an acre, but I do not think that was in force for very long. When I joined the Lands Department the regular price was 10s an acre. Previous to that there had been a system of conditional purchase which they called tillage leases, and the price was 12s 6d. The ordinary price of 10s remained for conditional purchase land until 1898, when a change was introduced in the law. It provided for grazing leases, that is land more suitable for grazing than cultivation. The poorer land, the second and third class lands, as they were called, were sold at a lower price. I think this system was introduced earlier than 1898, in 1893, when an Act was introduced called the Homestead Act, which amended the regulation and provided for the grazing leases.

9081. How long did that scale of prices for land continue in force?— Any land not considered first class had to be classified, and we priced it according to quality, as long as we did not go below 3s 9d. for third class land and 6s 8d. for second class land. Everything that was not dealt with under grazing lease conditions was sold at 10s an acre

9082. We understand that at a certain period in the history of land settlement the price of land was advanced by the department above 10s an acre? — We always had the power under the Act of 1898 to raise the price; 10s was only the minimum, and in a few cases it was done from the time the Act came into force, but we did not generally adopt the practice of classifying and pricing the land until about the year 1909.

9083. What was the reason for advancing the price in 1909?— It was considered a fairer way of dealing with land to classify and price it according to quality. The Surveyor General had long before recommended it. At the same time as we adopted higher prices we also adopted lower. We did not insist on 10s an acre.

9084. May I take it that in 1909 the principle of classifying and pricing land and survey before selection took place?—It practically went together.

9085. What would you define as the range of prices from 1909 onwards for land as compared with the prices of 10s., 7s. 6d., and 3s. 9d.?— It ran the whole gamut from 3s 9d. upwards to 20s., and 25s. in some cases.

9086. I think I would be within the mark in saying that the quantity of land afterwards sold at the lower rates was negligible?—Only a small portion.

9087. Considerably higher prices than 3s. 9d. and 7s. 6d. ranged after that?—Yes.

9088. What general concession has been made in the price of land since then?—Under the amending Act of 1915 all the conditional purchase leases that had been granted have been reconsidered and sweeping reductions in price have been made in all the higher priced lands.

9089. To what maximum price was the land reduced by the Land Act Amendment Act of 1915?— There was no maximum price fixed by the Act. It simply provided for a reduction of price to an amount not less than the minimum. That was the old prices of 6s. 8d. and 3s. 9d.

9090. Was the report of the Lands Classification Board incorporated in that Act?— The report was taken into consideration when the Bill was framed. The Act which has just been passed goes further still and fixed a maximum price.