that farmers always got the best results out of what they spent. It may be that, because of the prosperity of the State in the early days of the gold rush, there was a considerable amount of extravagance, and it may be hard upon those who went through those prosperous times to come back to scratch again. But I do not think that the men who are affected in that belong so much to the farming community. Most of the farmers in this State came from farming centres in other parts of Australia, and I do not see why they should have held any extravagant views, such as might have been held by other people in this State. No doubt in the beginning of farming operations here there was a sort of boom in farming generally, and the financial institutions were rather free with their advances. Such freedom will always give an extravagant man a wrong impression as to the value of money, so long as he can get that money to spend. In most of the districts on this State that I have visited the farmers have had their own families to help them and have not started with a great deal of capital.

9152. Have your connections with your farming clients during the past two years been satisfactory? - Speaking with regard to fertilisers. with which we mostly deal, so far as the farmers are concerned, our collection for the year before last amounted to about two-thirds of the money we let out, which must be considered to be satisfactory, considering the bad years through which the farmer has passed. Last year I think our collections amounted to about 80 per cent. Most of the farmers on our books are making satisfactory arrangements to meet their liabilities. Our business lies down the Great Southern line and along the goldfields line to Merridin, from Merridin to Wickepin, and down the South-West. We have not much business in the outlying districts. Anything along the Midland line beyond Three Springs is dealt with by our Geraldton office.

9153. Are any of your clients, who are growing wheat only, making satisfactory progress? - It is difficult to give a satisfactory answer to that question. From our point of view, however, the business is satisfactory because the farmer is paying his bills. The question is as to how much he owes his banker to enable him to do that.

9154. Can you suggest any means for improving the condition of the agricultural industry? - There has been far too much credit given in the past, and if men are taught to pay for their stuff when they get it instead of being able to get it on long terms, it would be very much better for the industry. No farmer can carry on successfully if he has to pay 1s, per ton per month on his manures, because that will sometimes run into 12 and 13 per cent. interest. The difficulty is to get the farmers up to the squaring point. Dalgety's have cut out the super business on long terms altogether, and have decided that, rather than carry it on, we would curtail the business and have it all on a cash basis. Although some farmers find it hard to meet their obligations, they are doing so in many cases, and we are helping them where the banks will not do so. I do not see anything on the surface which would tend to help the industry along at a greater rate at present.

9155. What is your opinion of the value of the Agricultural Bank from the point of view of land settlement? - It is no doubt a very fine institution, and would be a finer one if the advances were made under what I would call a proper system. In the past settlers have had advances from the bank against improvements to be made on the certificate of his neighbour. That seems a very rough and ready way of lending money, and I do not suppose any other financial institution in the world would lend itself to such a practice. If the bank was placed on a proper footing, it would greatly assist farming in the country. Of course it has been a big help in the past. Instead of a lot of settlers being placed upon land which he could not make a living until it had been cleared, it would have paid the Government better to have cleared the land in advance, even if a higher rent was imposed, and thus give a man an opportunity of making his living straight away.

9156. Do you think the should be free from political control, and placed under trustees to do business under regular mortgage lines? - Yes. I do not think any institution could thrive under political influence. There are to many interests to serve.

9157. What is your opinion of the Industries Assistance Board? - This institution is also advancing money to the farmers. I do not think these advances would have been necessary if the farmers had not had such unlimited credit in the first place, or that many if the sounder farmers would have wanted any assistance from the Government. In the early stages when they got credit for the asking, they often went into debt and drew against their securities, and when the rainy day came they had no equity.

9158. Is that why the merchants could not step in in 1914, because the Government held the securities? - The merchants did not feel inclined to go on once a man had spent his equity or used up the whole of his securities.

9159. Has your experience with the working railways been satisfactory? - I know of no complaints.

9160. Do you think there is anything wrong with agriculture in Western Australia at the present time? - No. The Government have now capitalised a lot of the farmers' debts, and made it appear that he is now in a better position than he was, say, four years ago. He has not had to pay out of his income because his debts have been capitalised, and will be liquidated some day. The man who makes up his mind to be successful on the land will, with ordinary luck, become so. No doubt the drought was a means of weeding out a lot of men who probably ought never to have been on the land.

9161. With regards to the Industries Assistance Board, the first essential you think is discrimination amongst the farmers? - Yes. The men who do not look like making a success ought to make room for those who are making every effort to do so.

(The witness retired.)

The Commission adjourned.