9359. By the CHAIRMAN : Is there any system of sending cornsacks in truckloads ? ---- We do so if possible. If an agent collects orders from his clients and, as a rule, he endeavours to get the farmers to say they want their cornsacks this week or next, we send them in a load and he distributes them. Unless the farmers agree with the agent we cannot send them by truckload.

9360. You cannot bulk the consignments unless they are consigned to your agent ? ---- Yes. If there are three consignments in a truck, each has to pay the minimum rate. This year there is a greater field for co-operative effort.

9361. Take a truck which carries a cultivator weighing 10 ¼cwt., the charge for which is £3 15s. 9d.; if you loaded a harvester on the same truck for the same destination, I presume a much higher rate would be charged ? --- I do not think it could be got on the same truck ; it would require a special truck. If you put a certain class of goods in the same truck you have to pay the rate for that class.

9362. By Mr. PAYNTER : There is no arrangement by which you can get a truck and fill it with what you like for a certain destination ? - No.

9363. By the CHAIRMAN : Could you suggest to the railways that in the same truck containing the cultivator, to save them trouble, you put in two bales binder twine, two cases of oil and two bags of super, you would have to pay the minimum rate for each class ? - Yes ; in addition to rate for the cultivator.

9364. If 10 farmers send you an order for a full truckload on that basis, they would not be able to secure any concession at all ? - Unless consigned to one farmer. They could do it themselves.

9365. By Mr. CLARKSON : Not if the order from the 10 farmers comprised a variety of goods ? - It would have to be one class of goods.

9366. By the CHAIRMAN : So that, practically, the only reform we could see could be made would be to get the Railways to institute a system by which a truck ordered for Wagin, could contain what they liked so long as they paid the freight ? - Yes. If you load a truck with goods, say four tons, you have to pay the minimum rate for four tons. If you load the truck with something else which costs another amount you have to pay the freight, and so you go on giving different instances. A 4 ton truck for the same distance costs more or less, which, so far as I can see, makes no difference to the railways.

9367. By Mr. PAYNTER : You favour one rate for all farmers' requirements ? - Yes. I cannot see what difference it makes to the Railways.

9368. By the CHAIRMAN : I presume you despatch all goods at owner's risk ? - Yes.

9369. Do you regard the rate for Commissioner's risk as being too high ? - Yes; we never do it unless we are specially requested, which is very rare. There is this advantage in connection with the Commissioner's risk : at this time of the year the Railways may fail to supply sheets. When the truck leaves the coast the weather is fine and during transit it rains. At its destination the farmer says he will not accept it, and that leads to difficulty.

9370. Are the Railways supposed to supply sheets ? - Yes.

9371. Do they contract to do it ? - I cannot say that but it is customary.

9372. By Mr. CLARKSON : The trucks are not supposed to leave the yard during certain seasons of the year without being sheeted ? - I cannot say that but it is customary.

9373. By Mr. VENN : Take chaff, for instance. You load a truck on one day and they do not supply the sheet for a couple of days, and the truck is left in the yard for two days and in the meantime it rains.

9374. By Mr. CLARKSON : What is the position if you consign a truck of super. to a farm and it arrives there Saturday and the consignee refuses to take delivery of it ? - We get the man to re-consign it to us as wet and we send on an equivalent number of bags of dry super. 9375. You lose that freight ? - Yes. We have tried to get redress from the department but without avail. You cannot penalise the farmer for circumstances beyond his control, even though in such a case the super. be consigned at the farmer's risk. We take the wet super. back and get the works to retreat it.

9376. By the CHAIRMAN : What is the position if you consign a truck of stuff to a siding, freight forward, and the farmer does not pay ? Do you have to pay ? - Certainly.

                                     ( The witness retired. )

                                            ------------------

JAMES WALTER AINSLIE, Local Trade Manager for Millars', sworn and examined :

9377. By the CHAIRMAN : Can you offer any remark in connection with the railway rates charged on small consignments from the point of view of your Company ? - We try to get over that by having yards in different districts. At these yards our customers do not have to pay if they got their goods in small lots from Perth. The two industries in which we are particularly interested are lime and timber. In connection with lime, a man living near Albany would have to pay £5 3s. 4d. freight on 48 bags of lime which would only cost him £4 16s. This is on the lowest rate, the 'M' rate provides for five tons to the wagon, and on 2½ tons he would come under the 'B' rate. The 'A' rate provides for four tons to the wagon. The 48 bags of lime would come under the 'B' rate. A man at East Arthur would have to pay £3 3s. 2d. freight on 24 bags of lime for which we charge him only £2 6s. It is the small lots which make the rates seem high. A man getting four tons of jarrah would get it under the 'A' rate, he would get two tons under the ' B' rate, and one ton under the 'C ' rate. If a man is getting 15cwt. It comes down to the first class rate. If he gets 2 cwt. the rate goes up considerably. It would be cheaper for a farmer at Brookton to get his material from the Beverly yards. On small lots ordered direct from Perth from the Agricultural districts a high rate has always to be paid. A man getting £2 worth of karri would be required to pay £2 8s. in freight, and if he obtained £1 10s. worth of jarrah, he would still pay the same freight. That is in the case of consignments to Nungarin which is 187 miles from Perth. In nine cases out of ten it pays our customers to buy direct from our country yards, which they can do at a small increase over Perth prices.