loading station without it being properly sealed, would that be sufficient ground to render the department liable for the damage ? — I do not think so ; it is a peculiar position. In law the carrier has the least liability in regard to passengers because they are supposed to look after themselves ; next , in regard to live stock , and the carrier has the greatest liability in regard to ordinary goods. With regard to live stock , and the carrier has the greatest liability in regard to ordinary goods. With regard to live stock , the sealing of the truck was instituted by the Commissioner as a safeguard for the sender of the stock. He had so many complaints that a truck left a distant station with so many sheep and that when it arrived at this end there were so many sheep short.The commissioner gave instructions to protect the customer that the truck should be sealed before it left the sending station and we look to see that the seal is intact when delivered to the consignee. We do not count the sheep but take it as a truck load of sheep. It is the business of the man sending the stock to see that the truck is properly sealed.

10192. Who is responsible for the sealing of the truck under your regulations?— The instruction is that the man receiving the truck shall seal it , but if I was sending a truck of stock i would see that the truck was sealed.

10193. Have you had many claims in the past in regard to fires caused by sparks from engines?— We have had a fair number of claims.

10194. Have any succeeded against you ?— We have paid certain claims , but I do not know that we have had many actions . As regards fires the court has already laid down in Sermon against the Commissioner the liability of the department in reference to fires. We are not legally liable for fires as long as we can show that we are using the best appliances to prevent sparks and that we are taking reasonable precautions to prevent fires. Where there is any doubt as to liability the claims have been met as far as possible.

10195. Is an effort made by the department to get loading for empty trucks returning from country districts by offering special rates for back loading in the shape of say. firewood ?— Not in regard to firewood. We have a firewood rate and I do not think the Commissioner would reduce it. If he reduced the rate on firewood , up on the Goldfields there is a tremendous quantity of firewood carried, and to reduce the rate would not amount to much down here, but it would very seriously affect the revenue of the department , but there are other things which may be considered in regard to back loading. To-day I was dealing with an application by a person who was to bring some stuff from the Goldfields. He is experimenting. In all such cases the Commissioner quotes special rates.

10196. If special representations are made to you from any quarter , you deal with them on their merits?— Yes.

10197. Would you , in regard to wood from farming districts ?— If you wanted to bring firewood from the Eastern districts which would probably be over 100 miles a rate for the 100 miles would have to be quoted and that would be a different proposition because it would not affect the short distance firewood traffic on the fields. The back loading of trucks does not affect us so much from the agricultural districts . We have a low rate for ores from the fields but it is not largely availed of. Any reasonable proposition put before the commissioner which would help to load up trucks without having to haul them empty, would be looked on from a liberal point of view. It costs as much to haul three empty trucks as two fully loaded.

10198. By Mr PAYNTER: In supplying trucks along the Eastern line , do you not think it would be more economical if trucks were dropped wherever required , whereas empty trucks are being taken past stations where they are required and where they had been ordered, going further on because they are ordered further on , should they not be supplied from the other end ? — Place yourself in the position of the people further up the line. You , at Trayning , want three trucks to-day. You have ordered them;you come there to meet them. I am away back at Merredin , and I want three trucks but I have not ordered them.

10199. It is a case where trucks have been ordered but trucks run by empty to fill orders further down the line ?— I cannot understand that, That is the business of the Transport Department , and they are supposed to supply the trucks in the way that will require the least haulage.

10200. Is there any matter which we have not touched on which you would like to bring under our notice?— I have seen the Commission dealing with rates and one gentleman , I think it was Mr Ainslie , in dealing with timber stated that we quote a low rate with a minimum of four tons. If we carry four tons at a certain rate , it is argued why not carry one ton or half a ton at the same rate , but a truck loaded with four tons at that rate will pay us, but if only two tons are placed in that truck the chances are we have to haul the truck with the two tons and it will not pay us. I confess in the Eastern States they are a little more liberal than we are here. I would like to point out our position. In this State we have a very large railway system and a small population to support it. In 1907-8 we had 1,830 miles of railway open and a population per mile equal to 145. Last year we had 3.332 miles of railway with a population per mile of only 95. In 1907-8 our passenger earnings per mile was equal to £273. Last year the return per mile was only £161. Our passenger rates last year were really higher than in the previous year because we had to put up our rates. Could we have earned on the same ratio as in 1907-8 we would have received in passenger returns £374,000. last year more than we did receive. Whilst we have 95 persons per mile of railway in this State, in New South Wales they have 446, in Tasmania 354 , in Victoria 345, South Australia 199, and Queensland 137. With their population not only do the Eastern States get a greatly increased passenger earning compared with this State but with the population extended over their lines in the large inland towns they require goods of the first , second , and third class , which pay well , and of which they get a far greater proportion than we do here. The effect of the larger population is this: In Western Australia what we call the low class of traffic was 59.22 per cent. of the whole of the earnings. In New south wales the low class traffic represented 39.57 of the traffic and in Victoria 44.87. On these percentages, if we had the same percentage of higher class traffic that they had there on goods alone we would have received , in the case of New South Wales,