the Fruit Commissioner for information on this subject, and he said that experiments which had been made had not been successful, and therefore we have not been able to do anything. The industry would benefit considerably if we could keep the second and third class fruit off the market and put it to other uses. We pay an orchard tax, and we understand that the department receives it, and a certain amount of that tax should be devoted to research work, which for the settlers themselves cannot possibly carry out. Then, with regard to the secondary industries, such as the manufacture of marmalade, etc., the Government should see that a supply of sugar is guaranteed to the settlers.

10379. By the CHAIRMAN: We have been told that the cost of getting an acre of orchard to the productive stage is £50?—That is too little, presuming the grower is buying the land. I do not think he can do it under £60. Then tile drainage costs another £15. The total cost would work out at £75 per acre.

10380. What do you estimate is the cost in this State of operating an acre of orchard annually till the fruit is ready to pick, including the cost of fertiliser and spraying?—It would depend upon the size of the trees. Take an average orchard, and I do not think it can be done under £10 an acre. The average, I think, would be about £9.

10381. What does fertiliser cost per acre under normal conditions?—It all depends on what class of manure is used. I think it would work out at about £5 an acre.

10382. What is your average return per tree?—With nine years trees, it has not been much more than a case per tree. My average this year was three-quarters of a case, and the actual cost of that was 5s. a case or 5s. 6d. net.

10383. What are the individual costs, making up the £9 to which you have just referred?—Three ploughings at 5s., 15s.; three cultivations at 4s. 6d., 13s. 6d.; three harrowings at 1s. 9d., 5s. 3d.; one digging, 20s.; two hoeings, 20s.; spraying, 24s.; spreading manure, 10s.; pruning, 20s.; discing, three at 5s., 15s.; sowing cover crop (peas), 10s.; total, £9 2s. 9d.

10384. Do you think the land in this district is better adapted for dairying than anything else?—It is splendid grass country. I think there is a big future for the dairying industry here. There should be, as there are in South Australia, a number of creameries in this State. But the restrictions are so heavy that a man, if he starts dairying, becomes crippled. That happened to me to such an extent, when I was milking 50 cows, that I sold the lot. I was told to put in cement floors, to construct fly-proof doors, and to do this, that and the other thing till it was quite impossible for me to carry on. Restrictions of this kind hamper the individual and make dairying quite impossible.

10385. By the CHAIRMAN: If this land, which is unsuitable for orchard purposes, is devoted to dairying, and it all has to be tile drained, will not the capital cost be too great for dairying?—I do not see that there is any necessity for tile draining in connection with dairying. I would advise the construction of open channels. I think that many of the orchards in Harvey will have to be made into dairies. I have been here for 15 years, and in the five years when I should have been getting a return I got nothing at all, and my land is supposed to be the best in the district. That was simply on account of the absence of drainage. Ever since I have been here my orchard has not paid expenses. I do not by a long way do what I should because I cannot afford it; the prices are too high.

10386. By Mr. PAYNTER: Are the departmental regulations satisfactory?—They must be hard; we admit that, and it is that fact that is keeping the industry alive to-day, although the regulations have increased the cost. We have compulsory spraying, and we also have compulsory picking up of windfalls and compulsory registration. All those things add to the cost of the orchard.

10387. By Mr. CLARKSON: Have you had any practical assistance from the Department in connection with the planting or the looking after of the trees?—I would not say that we have had assistance from the department, but the individual members of the department staff, if you get on the right side of them, will assist you. I do not want to say anything about the heads of the department. On the whole the department has not done very much. With regard to dealing with the by-products, the reply which we received from the department was that, as Mildura had not made a success in this direction nothing could be done for us. If the department carried out what should be done with regard to the irrigation scheme, we would not be receiving too much water as is the case to-day. We are likely to suffer from an excess of irrigation, and we have found that out for ourselves. An expert should have been sent down here to instruct us. We know that irrigation can kill an orchard quicker than anything else, and we should have had some information on the subject of danger from over-irrigation. It is estimated that the total capital invested at Harvey is £120,000. Of the area planted and sold, we ourselves sold 1,400 acres of freehold (as Harvey and Hayward). The blocks were sold by us on 10 years' terms, and there was a compulsory improvement condition of one acre per annum. That was to prevent speculation. It was found soon afterwards that this could not be carried out, and the clearing conditions were altered to one-tenth of the block during the currency of the agreement. A ten-acre block was sold by us for £100 on the terms stated with six per cent, interest added. The buyer paid six per cent, interest annually for 10 years, after which he paid us the principal in instalments.

                                                                                          (The witness retired.)

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LLEWELLYN PRINCE, Orchardist, sworn and examined: 10388. To the CHAIRMAN: I desire to refer to the irrigation scheme, and it will be necessary for me to go back to the initial stages of it. In 1912 I attended a meeting addressed by one of the engineers of the department. At that meeting some of the old settlers who know the nature of the land here pointed out that in their opinion there would be excessive seepage if the scheme was made with open channels. The engineer said "No"—he had traversed the site of nearly all the channels and felt they would hold well, but he added there might be one or two places which would require cement lining. From the commencement we as settlers wanted either