chains from the railway. It is all fenced. I cannot plough more than 100 acres of it. I have the necessary buildings and homestead and seven acres of orchard. The carrying capacity of my land is a sheep to six acres.

10715. By Mr. VENN: Do you find the orchard profitable?—Until two years ago it was, but the high price of cases, nails, and the indifferent markets have made the industry unprofitable to me. I made about £60 out of my orchard last year. It is a good orchard but I had to give tons of fruit to the sheep and cattle.

10716. To Mr. PAYNTER: I do not consider there is anything better than sheep and cattle. Unfortunately I have had a lot of my cattle stolen. Ricketts also are bad. I run about 22 head. I am milking four cows, but I cannot do well in dairying as one son has been killed at the war and the other one has been in camp for the last nine months.

10717. By Mr. VENN: You were here many years ago; what gave you your start in farming?—I started kangarooing as a boy. I used to get 1s. for each kangaroo skin. I used to make from £3 to £4 per day dealing in skins. I used to go far afield, but I had my home to which I used to retire.

10718. Are you satisfy with your proposition?—Yes, I am quite satisfied with the life. I am not in debt. I was the first to start kangarooing in this locality and then many others took it up. This of course was a benefit to the sheep growers. We used at the same time to kill out the wild dogs. I remember four of us getting 82 kangaroo skins in one day. 10719. Are there any difficulties that you are labouring under?—No, I do not consider there are any difficulties in the way of progress. This depends upon the man himself. There are certainly no men in this district who cannot get three meals a day. 10720. Some country has been surveyed here for repatriation purposes I believe?—Yes. Money has been wasted in this district in surveying land for returned soldiers. I guarantee that if you gave house, 500 acres and £200 to make a start with, in three years time a man would starve. There are thousands of acres where you could not get 100 acres of good land. As a matter of fact there are not 10 acres of good land left in the district. My land cost me 10s. per acre, and for the second-class land I paid about 5s. per acre.

(The witness retired.)

THOMAS BUSHE JONES, Farmer, Mumbulup, sworn and examined:

10721. To Mr. Paynter: I have been settled 21 years in this district. I have 550 acres, of which 500 is freehold, the balance C.P. It is half a mile from the railway, all fenced, and 70 acres cleared and under the plough. I have all necessary buildings, but my home could be better. I have 18 acres of orchard, planted with all varieties od stone fruit and apples. I have a full working plant, run 200 sheep, four cows, and usually keep a number of pigs. Pigs are profitable on account of the orchard waste. I give them no additional food, and they are always fit to kill. From the time they are weaned they get nothing in the shape of artificial feed and I kill them at 120lbs. I started with £200, and I consider my position to-day is satisfactory. I consider the property is worth about £3,000. I am quite satisfied with my prospects, and consider the export trade in apples will be a good thing. The price of cases is too high. I am cutting my own; they are costing now about 4s. 6d., but I had to pay 10s. 6d. last year. A man and myself can cut about 100 cases per day, and we only use three-quarters of a tin of petrol. I think more fruit -growers should get their own plant and cut their own cases. They have the timber at their doors, and they would pay for the plant in no time.

10722. Do you practise thinning heavy crops?—Yes, I find it pays well to do this.

10723. What manuring do you give your orchard?—Two cwt. to the-acre. I should like to use more lime but I cannot afford it. I consider that the government should open up local deposits of lime, for instance those at Capel and Lake Clifton. Lime from Perth costs 30s. to 35s. per ton. It is very badly wanted here.

10724. What sort of plant do you use for your fruit cases?—I have a ten-horse power Sunshine engine. This cost me about £200. I use a 3ft. saw for the breaking down, and a 2ft. saw afterwards. A few of these mills would reduce the price of cases. You can buy cases from some of the mills at 8s., and from the Government mills 10s. 2d. to 10s. 6d. landed here. The Government mills should have enough timber in the bush no good for anything else that could be used profitably for this purpose. I was told by a saw-miller that they were getting £6 per load for flooring boards, which if they cut into cases they could make another £2 out of.

10725. Are the schooling facilities satisfactory here?—I consider we should have better teachers. They send out young girls who have just left school. They should send more mature people. The young girls no doubt do their best.

10726. What is your opinion of the railway facilities?—Railway freights I consider should be reduced, particularly the price on single cases of to Perth. At the present time one case costs 9d., and three cases will cost at the rate of 6d. each. At the beginning of the year I sent two cases to Perth on which I had to pay 9d. freight, 9d. commission, and 6d. cartage, and in addition of course I had to pay for the case. For truck load lots the freight is reasonable. So far as the markets in Perth are concerned it should be possible to run a truck right into the markets, which ought all to be under one roof. I do not favour the use of second-hand cases. I do not allow even my own cases to come-back to my orchard.

10727. Is there any co-operation amongst farmers here?—Co-operation is gaining ground in this district, and when properly organised I consider that great good will result.

10728. At what price can you produce fruit and make it pay?—If we can get 5s. per case on rails there is a living in it.

10729. In the matter of roads——?—I am chairman of the roads board and I consider that the roads board should receive a certain amount of the sleeper cutters' licenses, as they do more damage to the roads than anyone else. They pay only the ordinary carter's license, and I consider that the roads board should get a proportion of the sleeper cutter's license fee. I think also that the Government