a tradesman. I told him that I was a practical farmer and again he refused me, and I had to pay £19 to come out of the country and leave my wife and family behind. The Government has assisted them to come out since. I could recommend a great number of men to come out here. These are good men too, men prepared to rough it. Although I came here with no capital I want to tell you that I have spent £640 on my orchard, and I have kept four children at the same time. My wife has assisted me splendidly. She still goes out to work and is pleased to do it too. I think that any man who comes out here with the idea of working hard, can save £1,000 in the same time as I have been here. Of course a man would have to work very hard and live frugally. I never spend on anything unnecessarily and I never take a holiday. In addition to my orchard I am also the owner of a town block.

(The witness retired.)

WILLIAM MOTTRAM, Rocky Bay, Bridgetown, sworn and examined.

10922. To Mr. PAYNTER: I have been in this district all my life. I am an orchardist and mixed farmer. I have 3,000 acres of which 744 is freehold. I have two blocks, one three miles from the town and another 11 miles away. My land is all fenced and 160 acres is under cultivation. I am working 35 acres of orchard. I grow principally apples. I have a good house, building, and plant. I carry 400 sheep, six head of cattle, 14 horses and 12 pigs. I started with £49 capital. I consider I am in a satisfactory position to-day. I go in for mix breeds of sheep. So far as the orchard is concerned this is not a profitably proposition. In the first place I put in the wrong varieties. From time to time I have been cutting down some of the trees. I have had to employ all my labour and what you are able to get is not sufficient. You must handle apples as you handle eggs, and after the knocking about by rail and the treatment by the employees you invariably suffer a loss. If you have to employ all your labour there is a living only in an orchard but no profit.

10923. By. Mr. VENN: What do you consider the prospects of the fruit industry?—I consider that the prospects of the apple trade depend on the overseas markets available.

10924. Do you find the sheep profitable?—The sheep are certainly profitable but the dogs are a handicap. I have fenced with 3ft. netting and barbed wire on the top. The dogs can jump this without any trouble. The year before last I bought 300 ewes and the dogs killed 174 of them and 33 lambs. They also killed 37 of my best breeding ewes out of 180. Last year I bought 168 wethers and 72 tegs, and all I sold was 113 of 168 wethers, the dogs getting the rest as well as 33 of the tegs. Fences are no good. Another year I lost 60 sheep out of 100.

10925. By Mr. PAYNTER: What are breeders doing to try overcome this difficulty? We have had several conferences and are trying to get the Government to make it compulsory that vermin Boards should be formed. I am a member of the Warren Roads Board, and while we are willing, there is the whole of the coast line right round Albany infested with dogs. The department wants us to tax ourselves for the whole of the area that is now unoccupied. We made a suggestion to bring in all districts in the South-West where dogs are bad and let us impose a small tax. If this is done I am sure that the dogs could be exterminated. The Government has promised us a pound for pound subsidy. When they first started the dog bonus a man went out and kill 137 in one lot and men poisoned dogs and made money, but to undertake this alone a man cannot make a living at it now. The last four or five years dogs have been increasing in hundreds, and as I said before, they jump any fence you can erect. You see therefore that fencing is very little good. Money which has been paid as a reward in the past has been wasted. The Government should allow the roads boards to pass the scalps in their own districts. In the first place you only had to produce the rail, now you have to produce the strip from the tip of the nose right down the back including the tail. I have laid baits on the way down to the coast, and by the time I got back, dogs which had died were in such decomposed state that you could not get the strip of skin that they demanded while you could get the tail. I know men who will not lay baits now for the reason that they cannot secure the reward. I would suggest therefore that one big board should be formed and there should be one centre where the fees could be paid. The local board would pass the tails and send the accounts forward for settlement by the central office. The people in Perth do not agree with this. I shall either have to go out of sheep or lose them if they do not do as I suggest. Another thing, I am prevented from shooting kangaroos to provide baits for the dogs. I have been warned by the Police that I must not kill unless I intend to use kangaroos for food. The dogs are now tackling yearling calves, and one man lost nine foals out of 11 killed by the dogs.

10926. Apparently you have traveled a good deal around the district. What is your opinion of the new settlers?—The recent settlers in Manjimup country, for instance, are in very great difficulty on account of the prices they have to pay for gelignite. They are paying £3 per case for it. You can only clear that country with the use of gelignite. This should be supplied to the new settlers as cheaply as possible. The land round here is somewhat sour also and we badly require lime. When the settlers have the land cleared they want to grass it. We send to the Perth merchants, and can only get as much seed for 5s. as one could hold in one's hand. The further a settler goes out the bigger is the handicap placed on him in the matter of freights, etc. This is the dairying part of the South-West. In Germany, if you were five or fifty miles away, you would get your produce landed on the market at the same price. The new settler wants small lots, and does not get the benefit of the truck rates. Co-operation appears to be doing something in the matter. A State farm like Brunswick should supply the little man with animals. The man with money goes there and pays £65 for two heifers, as was done at the last sale. The State farm should breed stock and sell it to the little man at a reasonable price. Th man who wants to start a herd should be able to buy pure bred bulls and other stock at a reasonable figure. This will build up the industry. The present method of selling the stock certainly wants rectifying.

(The witness retired.)