to whatever extent the English people contributed, and should pay a proportion of the upkeep as the State Government is relieving them of a portion of their responsibility. There is every reason why there should be co-operations between England and this Government, as it a national scheme. These charitable institutions can usually provide sums at given times for such matters as the improvement of buildings. The State Children's Department could work direct with the local governing body in Whitehall.

11338. Do the boys receive any religious instruction? — Yes, they are required to attend Church, some Anglican and some Roman Catholic. The object of the school is really to make farmers of these boys, but you will understand I have not had the money to do this as thoroughly as I would wish. I have not funds to buy sufficient machinery. When I do get this I shall teach the boys to dismantle and reassemble machines and work them properly in the field.

11339. By the CHAIRMAN: Have you any figures showing the cost of the institution and the amount required to keep these boys? — Yes. I brought these with me, and they are at your disposal. (Statement handed in.) On the 30th June, 1914, for eight adults and 33 boys the costs per week was £10 4s. 6d. The gross value of products was £273 19s. 6d. On the 30th June, 1916, for six adults and 31 boys, the cost per capita to the nearest penny equalled 12s. 7d. per week. The gross value of products was £396 3s. 10d. On the 30th June, 1918 (estimated), for five adults and 25 boys the cost per capita will be 16s. per week. The gross value of products will be about £400. The higher cost per capita is due to the reduced number of boys more than in increased price of commodities. A comprehensive statement showing details of cost is that which I have handed you.

11340. To Mr. Venn: The farm is 160 acres, 15 years old. We have 14 acres of orchard, though a great proportion of this is quite unprofitable. The apple trees are unprofitable. The apricots one year gave us a return of £120 from one and a third acres. Unfortunately there is no proper drainage on the land, and couch has taken possession of some of it. We have two cows, about 50 breeding sheep, and five or six breeding sows. What we want is an engine to pump water for reticulation to the house, and for the attachment whereby we could teach machine shearing, cut our own wood, etc. So far as the progress of this scheme is concerned, I hope to have three farms each for 200 children established in Western Australia. The output then would be 100 children would be received.

11341. Have the experts of the Department of Agriculture assisted you?—Mr George Wickens, the chief inspector of orchids, comes to the farm frequently, and has been of great assistance to us.

11342. By the CHAIRMAN: I consider it a privilege to have met you, Mr Fairbridge. There are to few men these days who are prepared to give up their lives to such enterprises, and the work you are undertaking is, I am sure, capable of very material benefit both to the State and to the Empire. Continuing, the witness stated—I do not believe in locking up money in expensive buildings, and I think that the principal desideratum is to have the right staff. I have a woman assistant, who is a wonderful help. I do not believe in a uniform staff or, as I said handsome buildings. What we want are men and women who will treat the children as human beings. One important branch of instructions is ethics. I consider that ethical training. We endeavour to teach the boys to put their heart and soul into the work, and I am pleased to say they are doing it. There is not much to see at the farm, but I hope that you will come out and see the work that we are doing. As I stated before, I consider the Empire is at the present time practically wasting 200,000 children, simply for lack of men and money to give them a training under the right conditions. These 200,000 children can really be written off as a bad debt so long as they remain in England.

(The witness retired.) _______________

JAMES DOUGLAS PATERSON, Farmer and Grazier, Pinjarra, sworn and examined:

11342A. By the CHAIRMAN: You have had a great deal of experience in this district, and as we have taken a quantity of formal evidence I should like you to tell the Commission to what purpose you consider this Pinjarra country is best adapted