11697. We have seen Rath's and Loaring's? - Cannington there are Packer and Hersey. They have two pumping plants in operation, and are amongst the most successful growers, in supplying the Perth market.

11698. What are they growing? - Mostly vegetables-market gardening. Then there is Barrett-Lennard of the Upper Swan, and Knowles of Harvey, and a few in the Gingin district. The oranges there are nearly all watered from the brook.

11699. What do you consider to be the future of irrigation in the South-West? -I consider the lines our branch have been adopting are sound. These help the individual settler. The weakness has been that we have never been able to comply with all requests for assistance. Again, the settlers have no experience of irrigation. No hard and fast rule can be laid down as to the lines to follow, as the conditions of the different farm operations influence the matter to a great extent. The future results of irrigation in the South-West will not be phenomenal, but I am convinced that with greater population and when the settlers have obtained the necessary experience, that the available water will be profitably utilised to the great advantage of mixed farming, fruit growing, etc. it will raise a higher standard of living, and better homes will result.

11700. What troubles have you to contend against? - The conditions at present that we have to contend against are want of population; want of practical experience by farmers; the training of students; the want of large areas of good land contiguous to water; the want of experienced labour and the high cost of same: the large areas of poor land deficiency in lime, and long distances from centres of population and markets, and the necessity for drainage before irrigation.

11701. Do you think the question of drainage really comes before the question of irrigation in the South-West? -Undoubtedly. All through my reports I have considered that this is one of the greatest factors against the successful results of irrigation.

11702. By Mr Paynter: When advising a settler, do you base your advice on that? -Absolutely.

11703. You do not advise him to put in irrigation if he needs drainage? -No. But the inclination of the settler is to commence operations on the low-lying portion of his farm. I have been most forcible in condemning schemes which i do not think payable. I have here a letter, put in very clear language, telling Mr Castieau not to go in for irrigation because the scheme would not pay.

11704. By the Chairman: As a matter of practical irrigation, do you know any area in the South-west on which you could recommend the expenditure of £10,000 on irrigation today; and what crops would you advise those spending the money to grow? -No; because today things are in such an unsettled condition that the establishment of any farming community is so difficult, it would be unwise to attempt it.

11705. Under normal conditions, in what area would you be prepared to recommend the expenditure of £10,000 on irrigation, and for the growth of what crops? -Speaking without going into the matter much, I would not advise it.

11706. Do you consider that irrigation in this State is at present on its trial? -Yes, in the main.

11707. And that the immediate objects to which irrigation or semi-irrigation should be applied are in respect to small plants? -Yes.

11708. Owned by the men themselves? -Yes.

11709. Do you consider that it is dangerous to go into the thing on a large scale until we have more knowledge? - No, I do not consider it dangerous if sufficient investigations are made, by co-relation of the expert officers in the service. I consider that we should have the best brains in the service as one.

11710. If you had that, you think that further irrigation might be practised under normal conditions? -I do.

11711. In what particular district of the South-West do you consider that further irrigation to cost, say, £10,000, might be practised in a large way? -The expenditure of £10,000 is not very much.

11712. Take any sum you like? -We could establish after investigation, cheap dams in places like the Serpentine and several of the rivers running down the coast. It would be impossible to discuss this question at present because we have not the population.

11713. Under normal conditions then? -Investigations should be made which have not been so far made as to the agricultural standpoint.

11714. In what respect do you consider that want of population would touch the irrigation question in a practical way; I mean the establishment of any large irrigation scheme which must come about if a great expenditure of money is being made by the Government? -The question is, can we obtain the necessary number of settlers.

11715. Take it that we could obtain them? -If we could obtain them undoubtedly we could make it profitable.

11716. What crops would you recommend to the settler to grow? -I would recommend crops for the supply of dairies, such as maize, sorghum, millet, lucerne or anything in the way of root crops.

11717. You recommend dairying? -Yes.

11718. What else? -Outside of dairying, fruit-growing and vegetables, I cannot see where irrigation would be very profitable.

11719. Do you think it is limited to the consuming population? -Exactly. We can practically overload our limited market. We find time after time that men go in for one class of stuff and soon overload the markets.

11720. Boiled down I take it that your attitude is that the State has unlimited water flowing down to the coast; that there is a limited amount of irrigable land; that this irrigable land is favourably situated, but that there are not very many opportunities for the establishment of irrigation schemes as assistance to the dairying industry? -That is so.

11721. Have you been connected with the Harvey irrigation scheme? -No.

11722. Why? -I cannot tell.

11723. Were you never called in in connection with the scheme? -I was asked to go to Harvey with Dr. Williams in 1911 and to give my views as to a scheme there. As there had been no survey and no particulars at all I recommended that surveys should be made. It was impossible to give any information without a survey. Since that date I have never been requested to give any information.

11724. So that the State has laid down the Harvey scheme without consulting its irrigation expert in any shape or form? -Exactly.