in sand such as we have around Perth, where there is very little natural plant food, it would not be of much use. There was no doubt about the good effect lime had on the soil at the Brunswick orchard. The late Commissioner applied four tons to the acre, spread over a number of years at the rate of approximately, half a ton per acre per annum.

11769. Can you express any opinion as to the leaching of manures in the South-West?—I think only the nitrogenous would be affected and that would be only if put on too early. There would not be much leaching. The thing that can happen is the complete washing away of soil and manures.

11770. A witness told us he was afraid that his manures were all washing out under irrigation into the river?—He might lose nitrogenous manures in that way.

11771. We understand the phosphatic manures are readily soluble in water?—They are. But surely under irrigation he would not turn on a sufficient stream to wash out his manures. His drainage drains must have been running at a tremendous rate. Irrigation can easily be overdone. I think he must have been applying to much water.

11772. Other witnesses have said that they consider that their manures are leaching away, and desire to know if there are not manures which are not so soluble?—If a man wants a slower acting manure, he can apply bonedust instead of super. NItrogen should be put on later in the Spring when there should not be much chance of its leaching out then.

11773. By Mr. PAYNTER: Do you consider that our orchardists are up to date in their methods?—I think if we take our best men, we will find they are as much up to date orchardists anywhere in the world. We have certainly men quite as bad as can be produced anywhere. I know of no apple orchard in the State which is as up to date at the Illawarra Company's Orchard. This must be paying its way, because it is a company which has its books audited. It is a much smaller orchard than many of the big Mr. Barker orchards, but will, I understand, pick between 15,000 and 20,000 cases this year. The manager expects to get from 250 to 300 cases per acre.

11774. By the CHAIRMAN: How many trees to the acre has he?—Close on 100. It is a magnificently kept place, and it is running a cold store with a capacity of 10,000 acres.

11775. By Mr. PAYNTER: Has the department done anything to encourage the growers to use up their second grade fruit and put it on the market in dried form?—The Commonwealth authorities offered to do their best to find a market for it earlier in the year. The bigger centres were approached to see if they would start on a large scale, and go in for a line that they could export. The price they have been getting here for fresh fruit, however, was such that they did not care to undertake the business. The Government were quite willing to assist them to the extent of pound for pound for the erection of evaporators, but they did not take it up. The Government are already assisting to the extent of about £5,000 in connection with the jam factory.

11776. Have they done anything with regard to the disposal of the bi-products by distilling?—No.

11777. Are there any grounds for opening up that subject?—It might be opened up when they are trying canning an drying to a greater extent than they are now. It is only in the last few years that we have been forced to look to bi-products at all. Our markets for fresh fruit have been quite good enough. Western Australia started in with a big export trade. We were not stuck in the beginning for a market as the Eastern States were, for our growers planted with the idea of exporting. Until the export ceased on account of the war, there was no hardship in the fruit trade here. This has now come all in a lump.

11778. By the CHAIRMAN: What export markets have been exploited?—Before answering that question, I would say that last year, the first since fruit growing was established here, as a primary industry, that we had a decrease in the acreage. Prior to the war fruit was shipped to Antwerp, Batavia, Bombay, Colombo, Capetown, Cochin, Durban, Hamburg, London, Liverpool, Port Said, Singapore, Sourabaya, Samarang, Shanghai, and Stockholm.

11779. What fruits have we been able to export successfully?—Mostly apples, pears, and grapes.

11780. What about oranges?—That trade has really never been opened up on commercial lines, to countries outside of Australia.

11781. One witness informed us that he had obtained deck freight for oranges, and had got them successfully round the Cape to England, and that a private parcel had been received in good order and kept for some months after landing. It left here on the 6th July and arrived in England on the 3rd October. The grower in question was Mr. W. F. Rudall—he had a lot of luck. It was certainly a pretty severe test. This might be done in a small way. Apples have been sent as deck cargo, but not always successfully.

11782. By Mr. PAYNTER: Have these markets been opened up by growers or by your department?—We get what information we can from the Agent General and hand it on to the growers. As a general rule the A.F.L. have done most of the working out of their markets and exploiting them.

11783. Your department does not lay itself out to find these markets?—We have not done so more than I have already stated. We have never undertaken to export with the object of determining if the fruit would arrive in good condition. Growers are only too willing to trade with the markets that are suggested.

11784. By the CHAIRMAN: Do you know of any practical outlet for surplus oranges under normal conditions?—We have had some trade with the Eastern States and Colombo. We might do a little with the northern ports, and with Java, Sourabaya, and Singapore. Some growers planted early naval oranges in the hope of working up an export trade. I am not too sure that some of the bigger centres are as prosperous as they might be, judging from the way the industry is going. It does not seem as if there would be too much fruit, because of the way the trees are going.

11785. Are you referring to the Harvey?—Yes. In one year yield there was close on 70,000 cases, but it was down to 50,000 last year, and will I think, be less this year.

11786. Do you think that the Harvey is naturally situated for the growth of citrus fruits?—I think the mistake was made in planting the whole