policy to pursue. The population would be doubled or trebled and the holding would be properly developed. This is better in opinion than to build further railways, although the Nornalup country is bound to come by and by.

11892. What area would you advocate that a man should hold at Denmark. The holding must vary in area because there is a lot of rough land which has to be included. Twenty five acres of good land would be ample for any man put his energies and capital into.

11893. You consider that as a rule 100 acres is too large an area?—If the land is good, yes.

11894. What is your opinion of the future of mixed farming in the South-West?—I think the future is good. We have to adapt our work to our condition, have smaller holding, grow crops, and do more hand feeding.

11895. do you think that the standard for settlement in Western Australia would be better laid down on the stock carrying capacity of the land than on any other basis, when we take into consideration the changing condition of the soil of the State. Do you think this would be better than the present arbitrary acreage?—Acreage is only rubbish. The standard that you suggest is the only good one. Utilise 2,000 better than another will utilise 20 acres.

11896. Are you familiar with the lime deposits in the State?—I have personally examined the deposits at Dongara, Gingin, Bullsbrook, Fremantle, Lake Clifton, Waroona and Capel, and surrounding neighbourhoods.

11897. What do you consider the State might do to make these deposits available to agriculturists?—The lime from Waroona to Lake Clifton should be constructed. Modern method should be adopted of loading the lime sand hills at the side. Lime can be put into trucks at 1s. per ton. To this could be added a payable rate at which it could be carried over the railways, and it would then be possible to give lime to the greater portion of the South-West at a price which it would pay people to procure it for. In giving the estimate of 1s. a ton, I am presupposing the use of machinery and a big output. In an article on the Waroona deposits I showed that the drain there had been excavated at a cost of from 9d. to 11d. per cubic yard. There is a big drain of 15 chains in length through the sand hill half a chain in width at the top and perhaps 15 feet deep. This was constructed to take the water from a swamp near by. The work was done at 9d. a yard on contract and the man made good money. I went into the question of the cost of moving sand in connection with the re-grading of the Fremantle line. I found that under the arrangements that were adopted the cost worked out at 9d. per cubic yard. If the man who a had applied for the lease of the area at Waroona had been granted his concession, and a railway had been constructed at about £15,000, the whole thing would have been done. It is essential that this railway should be constructed. There is no better lime for situated that it serves practically the whole area of the south-West. The Government too should adopt some practical policy for working the smaller deposits for local purposes. In regard to the Gingin lime, I think the Government have promised Mr. Gordon a crusher and with that he should be able to supply lime out of the Mole Cap hill fairly quickly.

11898. He proposes to put it on trucks at 12d. per ton?—He is under a pledge to do that.

11899. By Mr. PAYNTER: Without bags?—It does not need bags.

11900.There would be a lot of leakage?— It will not pay to gag lime to be used for agricultural purposes; not on a large scale. It is a hopeless thing.

11901. It makes it very dear?—We have to find a method of handling lime in bulk at reduced cost. At the farthest, the lime ought to be available for the farmer at from 5s. to 10s. per ton on his farm, according at his locality.

11902. By Mr. CLARKSON: Some very cheap method of raising it will have to be found?—If, at Government stroke, a sand hill can be moved at 9d. per cubic yard, or if a contractor can take can take a cutting through a sand hill at 9d per yard, and make a good profit, cannot lime be put on tracks, by means of carriers, at 1s. per ton?

11903. By Mr. PAYNTER: The Gingin material is pretty dear at 12s., then?—It is cheap under present conditions there only 40,000 tons in the hills, but there is plenty farther on. But if you start to work the big hill at Gingin, opening up a quarry and putting in machinery, you can have half a million tons at less than 1s. per ton . Use mechanical method, run the tracks in. It will not do unless you have a big quantity. The question is, are the people ready to use the lime? They talk about using it, but they talk about tons, and not large quantities. I am not yet convinced that they are really are prepared to use lime. They have got the idea that lime is going to do wonders, whereas it will not pay to put the land unless the land is drained and otherwise properly treated and cultivated.

11904. Are you of opinion that the South-Western lands do not require lime?—I am of opinion that a good many of them do require lime and will not reach a high state of fertility until they get it. But lime is not the first essential. Heavy land which has drainage is all right. But must be put in through stock. Lime is merely a means. It is not a magic thing that is going to make all the difference in the fertility of wet land. What use is lime in land lying, like a lot of the South-Western land, under water throughout the winter almost? You have to get the water off first. Then you have good pasture straight away.

11905. By the CHAIRMAN: Drainage must be a question antecedent to lime?—Absolutely. Drainage must go before lime.

11906 Do you consider that drainage should be a antecedent to that of irrigation in the South-West? Which do you consider is the more important in the South-West, drainage or irrigation?— On a great deal of land irrigation would be a waste of money unless the drainage is there first. It depends upon the conditions. In some cases there is no drainage required with irrigation. In other cases it is useless to think of irrigation until drainage has been done. That was made quite clear in a lecture I gave at Bunbury in February of 1904. I said—Irrigation. Drainage of wet lands. The opinion I have formed is that the large portion of the