McCallum Smith has made practical tests at Homebush with 20 bags of this lime, and he assures me he has had very marked results wherever he had used it.

(The witness retired.)

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FREDERICK JAMES HUELIN, Secretary to the Commissioner of Public Health, examined:

11952. By the CHAIRMAN: What supervision does the Government exercise over dairies in the country districts?—We inspect them from time to time. In many cases we have first to find out where they are.

11953. By Mr. VENN: Every man milking cows is supposed to register them?—Yes; but our experience is that very seldom does any person register unless we find out that he is actually milking and draw his attention to the necessity for registration.

11954. Is there any penalty for non-registration?—Yes. It is a breach of the by-laws.

11955. Has there ever been any attempt to enforce the Act with regard to non-registration?—So far as I can remember, we have never prosecuted any farmer for non-registration. As regards the dairy farmer, if he is not supplying milk in the ordinary way, as a town dairyman does, he is registered free of charge; he does not pay a fee.

11956. By Mr. PAYNTER: What constitutes a dairy according to the Act?—A dairy man is a person who keeps cows for the purpose of trading.

11957. Any number of cows?—Yes; from one onwards. For the ordinary town dairyman the fee is £1. We do not charge a fee to the man who does not sell milk in the ordinary way, but produces cream for butter making either on his own premises or at the factory. We have had that principle in vogue for many years now, with a view to encouraging the dairying industry among the farmers.

11958. By the CHAIRMAN: Is the supervision of country dairies regular and continuous?—Yes. We have, of course, only a small staff, and the district is very considerable. I do not mean to suggest that we inspect every dairy farm once a quarter or even once a half year. Some of them are extremely hard to get at.

11959. By Mr. VENN: Do you enforce the laying down of concrete stalls in the country now for anyone making butter or dairying?—No. It might be well if I gave the policy of the department as regards the dairy farmer.

11960. By the CHAIRMAN: What are the regulations regarding the conduct of dairies in the country?—I have a copy of the by-laws with me, but in the by-laws we do not specify the concessions allowed to the dairy farmer, the man who does not sell milk to the public, the man who is producing milk for the purposes of cream for sale or for butter making. In those cases we do not insist on a concrete floor for a milking shed, provided the premises are kept scrupulously clean and provided that the floor is of good hard material and capable of being kept clean, and properly drained. We do think that a milking shed is necessary, because during winter, in the absence of a milking shed, the rain and also the moisture coming from the cows' hides would find its way into the pail and contaminate the milk. Some of the farmers appear to think that they ought to be permitted to milk cows in the open, but then the moisture from the cow falls into the milk-pail.

11961. Your statement implies that in the metropolitan area you insist upon concrete floors?—Yes.

11962. But you insist everywhere that cows must not be milked in the open?—Yes. In addition to the milking shed, every dairyman must have what we call a milk room, a room in which he keeps all his utensils. The essential features of a milk room are that it is fly-proof and has a concrete floor and a few other details, so as to comply with the by-laws. The purpose is to allow of the room being kept thoroughly clean, and washed out with a hose whenever necessary. In that room the dairyman keeps his utensils when not in use, so that the flies may not get at them. In that room he stores all his milk and dairy produce. The room has to be used for no other purpose. The concession we make to the dairy farmer is that, instead of compelling him to erect such a room, we are satisfied if he provides himself with a sufficiently large fly-proof safe. A safe on the Coolgardie pattern meets our requirements if it is in good order and the canvas is intact. The third concession is that such a man is registered free of charge.

11963. By Mr. CLARKSON: In the case of a country dairy farmer milking, say, 10 cows, do you insist on his having a milking shed large enough to hold all the 10 cows at once?—No; only a shed large enough to hold the cows that he milks at one time. It is quite sufficient if the milking is done under cover. A man with 10 cows might find two bails sufficient for his requirements.

11964. By Mr. VENN: What percentage of the dairy farmers in South-West are milking their cows under sheds to-day?—Many of them, I understand, have sheds. Mr. Higgs, one of our inspectors, could answer the question.

11965. A good deal of the dairying in the South-West is done for only about five months of the year, say from July to December. When those dairy farmers bring their cows into the yard it is fairly dry weather, and they milk them in the yard?—The months from July to December are not all dry months in the South-West.

11966. By the CHAIRMAN: If utensils such as milk-cans or cream-cans are found to be dirty, what action is taken?—If nothing else would hold good, the man would have to be brought before the court. As a fact, we have very few prosecutions. I cannot remember any dairy farmer being prosecuted for any offence. We always try to persuade the man to do what he ought to do. There are very few cases in which, when it is pointed out that dirty habits and dirty methods are unsatisfactory for the man's own sake, improvement does not result. If a man could not understand what cleanliness meant, he would have to be prosecuted.

11967. The regulations are designed really for the protection of the consumer and also for the good of the dairy farmer?—Undoubtedly.

11968. By Mr. VENN: A man milking cows in a good, dry, sandy yard is liable to be prosecuted, then?—Yes. That would not be satisfactory.

11969. The dairy farmers nearly always pick for the yard a sandy spot or a dry spot?—In the winter time a shed is necessary because the rain would wash the dirt from the cow's hide into the pail. In dry weather, if the yard was sandy, dust would get into the pail. Some dairymen here hose down the yard