ter, seeing that only recently have I had anything to do with the institution.

12004. You notice that the farm shows losses from 1912 to 1916, inclusive ?—We are presuming those are losses. They show the difference between revenue and expenditure. I believe they represent losses. The accountant states that there is no profit and loss account kept. I brought up these figures not with any purpose of explaining them, which I am not able to do, and which it is not may function to do, but to give you, if you wished, information regarding the policy as indicated by your questions.

12005. We are very glad to see you, and glad to discuss the general question with you. It is unfortunate that, apparently, you have come up as representing the accountant, and that you are unable to suggest replies to the queries which I put to you ?—There has been a misunderstanding, If it had been known that you wished to ask questions upon those matters, the accountant would have brought up his own statement, or someone able to deal with the figures would have brought them up.

12006. Seeing that you show losses from 1912 to 1916 inclusive, and that it is reasonable to assume you incurred losses from 1906 to 1911 inclusive, those losses, if they are a fact, would increase the cost of the farm ?—Quit so.

12007. And if these losses are not shown on this statement, the statement does not supply what we asked for, namely the total loss on the Brunswick State Farm to date ?—That is not possible, because as the accountant says, he does not keep a profit and loss account.

12008. If there were losses made from 1906 to 1911, they would be added on to the losses shown here ?—Quite so. I am not trying to cloak the losses. I would regard an experimental farm as very unusual if it was able to show a profit or even to pay for itself.

12009. That is merely sidetracking the issue. I have asked for certain information, and if there is a loss from 1906 to 1911, and if that loss is not ask for those figures, then the Commission are not able to make up the actual total loss on the Brunswick State Farm ?—No. But what I want to take exception to is this, that that information has not been supplied simply because you did not ask for it. Our desire was to supply you with the fullest information along the lines that you wished. If the information has not been supplied, it is because of a misunderstanding as to what your requirements were.

12010. Did you ask the accountant, or were you instructed by the accountant, as to whether the capital cost of the farm itself was included in these figures ?— I was not instructed by the accountant in any way. I would like to mention that I have been away from the office several times during the morning, and it was only during one of my periods there that I was informed you required me this afternoon. That is probably why your message was not delivered to me.

12011. Unless carefully read over, the £16,000 would appear to have been the loss on the Brunswick State farm, whereas it is considerably more. The question you were asked to furnish an answer to was, "What has been the cost of the Brunswick State farm with accumulative interest to date," meaning the total cost of the farm with accumulative interest and charges. If it not mean that, it did not mean anything ?—Your question meant the cost, and the departmental accountant evidently considers the loan expenditure is the cost. You may call this a loss and other people may say it is not a loss. For instance, our Modern School costs so much a year to the State and you may call that a loss, while other people would not. The point I want to emphasise is that I refute the statement you made that the department does not want to supply you with the information which you ask for.

12012. At any rate, the department has not shown any willingness to supply that information ?—I take exception to that remark. I have told you already that they are getting the figures out for you.

12013. Mr. VENN: Mr. Sutton has already told us that. He said so at the beginning of his remarks.

12014. By the CHAIRMAN : The figures were asked for on the 4th April ?—And the figures you asked for have been given to you.

12015. By Mr. VENN: Mr. Sutton has offered to get the figures required ?—I have already stated that the figures are being prepared. I hope Mr. Giles is not deliberately misunderstanding me.

12016. By the CHAIRMAN : No, but I do not understand what you are saying ?—I told you plainly that as the information you evidently required had not been supplied, the accountant had been instructed to get out certain other figures to give you to correspond with that it was understood you wanted.

12017. My questions to you have all been directed to the fact that the answer you have given to question No. 1 is not an answer, and it is necessary to go into a great deal of calculation to find out what your answer really means ?—Mr. Trethowan is now getting out the figures which Mr. Lee told him you required.

12018. The CHAIRMAN : These figures are far from correct and do not answer the question which was sent forward.

12019. By Mr. PAYNTER: What arrangements have you made for the inspection of potatoes over the great Western railway ?—There is an inspector at Kalgoorlie and the potatoes are carried out at some place east thereof, for which. I believe, a fee is charged about 2s. 6d.

12020. And if potatoes are diseased, do they have to be destroyed ?—Yes, undoubtedly. If they do not comply with the regulations they are treated in exactly the same manner as at Fremantle.

12021. WITNESS: Yesterday I asked to be allowed to send you a copy and details of the provision which had been made to enable Osborne Park growers to send seed potatoes to other parts of the State. These are contained in the regulations which I am handing you herewith.

(Handed in).

(The witness retired.)

PERCY GEORGE WICKEN, Assistant to the Commissioner for the Wheat Bill, sworn and examined:

12022. By the CHAIRMAN: Are cows supplied to settlers, and on what terms ?—No, not at present.

12023. By Mr. PAYNTER: How long is it since this policy was discounted ?—They were supplied