behalf of certain persons behind the scheme which was not dreamt of, that large areas would become exempt, and that they would have no voice in those exemptions, they would not have consented to the scheme?—There are no large areas, but only small areas belonging to individuals.

12216. There must be large areas if the rates are reduced by £650?—The assessor can give you exactly what he is rating and what the exemptions are.

12217. According to the agreement the rates should amount to £2,896?—That wants explaining. The accountant says that the total in arrears is £843, and the current rates £2,125, giving a total of £2,969.

12218. The next question is, what are the total arrears of water rates unpaid to date?—£843 17s. 11d.

12219. Were the growers representated by a board, and has the work been carried out with that board's approval?—Of course we have dealt with that. There is no board.

12220. Do the department hold that the settlers had no board or body to represent them? The settlers maintain that they had a committee, and that the committee were not always recognised?—It is rather difficult to say whether the settlers were represented by a board. They certainly had a committee.

12221. Has the work, then been carried out with the approval of the committee?—Yes. It was not arranged that they should approve from time to time; but they agreed to the proposals which were put up. They agreed not to oppose those proposals. That is, as far as there has been any arrangement between the department and the Harvey settlers. The late Under Secretary can, perhaps, tell you more on that point. As far as I know, there has been no attempt to alter or rearrange other than the points we have dealt with.

12222. The Harvey people say that the work has not been carried out with their approval, and they point to the fact that the channels have not been lined as a case in point, and to the fact that the pipes agreed upon have not been used as another case in point, and to the fact that the river channel was not piped as a further case in point. They say that the committee have never agreed to those alterations. Can you point to any agreement with the Harvey people for those alterations?—No. You see, the agreement was not made as regards the pipes, that they should go in. What was proposed I have already stated; but it was clearly stated also that that would be subject to arrangement with the different owners. That cannot be taken as a hard and fast agreement by any means.

12223. Were the Harvey people satisfied with the scheme as you put it up to them originally?—I think so.

12224. Did not they express certain doubts and ask to be allowed to go and express those doubts to the Minister?—I do not remember anything of the sort. I am under the impression that there was a perfect agreement on the matter.

12225. Did not Mr. Becher, for instance, consider that the application of water to ungraded orchards, through open channels, was a very risky proposition?—I do not think so. Mr. Becher, as far as I know, was quite in accord with the scheme, when that particular meeting closed. There are particulars of that meeting which I think should be produced if you wish to know exactly what occurred. Minutes were kept. I think that at the end of that meeting a motion was passed agreeing to the proposals.

12226. The Harvey people say most emphatically that they did not agree to the proposals, that they expressed their doubts very strongly, and that they requested an interview with the Minister to express those doubts to him. That interview was not arranged for 12 months afterwards. Are you aware of the fact that the interview actually did take place?—I cannot say. Of course that was not my part of the work, that was the Under Secretary's province.

12227. You do not know that the settlers subsequently interviewed the Minister to point out to him their doubts about the scheme being satisfactory?—I could not say one way or the other. If you want me to give the details in that way, I can only work on the files. I think it would be a very much better plan, if you could so arrange, to get Mr. Trethowan, who conducted the meeting and had the minutes kept. He was Under Secretary at the time, and also chairman of the commission. I suggest you should get him to give evidence. I simply attended there as engineer to explain the scheme.

12228. Do you deny that there was any opposition to the scheme at Harvey?—As far as I know, there was no opposition to the proposals put up.

12229. Mr. Becher, of Harvey, says that at the meeting, "we most emphatically pointed out that we considered the irrigation scheme here with open channels would be a failure, and the reason we did that was that some of us had previous experience." Do you deny that statement? It is made by Mr. Becher on oath?—I cannot either deny it or confirm it. I do not remember. I was under the impression that everybody was in agreement.

12230. Did not the settlers ask for a pipe scheme instead of an open channel scheme?—Before this meeting—at least I think it was before this meeting—a proposal was put up for a pipe scheme. They suggested that a pipe scheme might be put in, and that proposal was gone into. It was found that a pipe scheme would cost about £80,000. As far as I remember, they were informed of the position. But I am not aware of any concerted demand that the pipe scheme should go in. It was simply an alternative proposal which was taken up and then dropped on account of the cost. However, on that point also there are files which will state everything that occurred.

12231. When you went to the individual growers, from whom you obtained the indemnities, did you, or did your officers, tell them that the concrete pipes would not work, and get them to assent to an alteration of the plans on that explanation?—I do not know. I do not think so. I, of course, did not deal personally with that matter. My officers went round to get the indemnities. If they did that it would be altogether against instructions.

12232. What was the actual reason why the pipes were not employed?—That we could not get the material for the moulds. It was necessary to