12252. You say this was clearly explained to the settlers before the scheme was put in?—Yes. The Government have a standing arrangement to construct head ditches, do the grading, supply sluices and drops, and everything, at cost price, either to put the whole thing for the settlers and do their grading, or sell them different portions and give them the levels and let them do it themselves. This arrangement has been in practice for some considerable time. it is necessary to have such an arrangement in the interests of development.

12253. When the water was laid on, were the settlers shown how to use it?—Yes. In the first year when the channels were approaching completion, we allowed the settlers to take water without paying rates, and the officers of the department were around from time to time in connection with this matter. Irrigation had been going on at Harvey for a good many years before the scheme came along. It was not a dark science. There has been irrigation all along the river by means of pumps, for a long time. The distribution of water in a general way was understood.

12254. For how many summers has the scheme been in operation?—This is the third summer.

12255. Would you be surprised to know that the Harvey people told the Commission that they were not instructed as to how to apply the water to the land, and that there has been endless trouble and considerable loss in consequence?—There might be people at Harvey who would say that, but I know there are many other people there who would deny it. I would suggest that general evidence be taken regarding all these matters from the Harvey people. Apparently one section only has tendered evidence. There are other settlers, i am confident, who would express approval of the work of the Government generally. I think the views of both sides should be taken on all points.

12256. By Mr Venn: Have you any man stationed there now to put the water on the land for these people?—Yes. He delivers the water at the boundary, but advises as to how it should be used. The settlers have not always taken the advice which has been given.

12257. By the Chairman: You appear to be under the impression that the evidence given by the settlers that they were not instructed how to use the water in the early stages is not in accordance with the facts?—Yes.

12258. Was the State irrigation expert consulted at any point in the preliminary investigations as to the advisableness of the scheme? -I think he furnished a report very clearly in the proceedings to his Minister.

12259. Was that report favourable to the scheme?—As far as I know it was.

12260. Was the State irrigation expert employed by the Irrigation Commissioners at any subsequent period to assist the settlers in turning the water to the best account and making a success of the whole irrigation scheme generally?—Now we are getting on rather tender ground. Mr Scott was under the direction of the Commissioner for the South-West, and Mr Scott certainly assisted various Harvey settlers, rendering splendid assistance to them from time to time. But in my opinion his services might have been availed of more fully as regards water distribution. I think it would have been better if he had been told off to advise. He should have been recognised as being available. It is quite possible it was considered that, as he advice is available at the present time to all people in the State in connection with the use of water, it of course, was available to the Harvey people.

12261. So far as you know, the Irrigation Commissioners never deputed Mr Scott actually to take over the supervision of the work of the Harvey settlers, so as to turn the scheme to the best account. He had time at his disposal, and he also had an assistant who was, I believe, a pretty good man; and it seems that they might have been employed. As far as we can gather, they never were employed by the Irrigation Commission to assist in making a success of the Harvey scheme?—They would not be employed by the Irrigation Commission, because that is not an executive commission. It is simply advisory. There was a Commissioner for the South-West, and Mr Scott was employed by the Commissioner for the South-West. Mr Scott was not connected with the Irrigation Commission. The Commissioner for the South-West and the Fruit Industries Commissioner were on the Irrigation Commission. I remember writing a minute on the matter a long while ago, saying that I thought it would be advisable if the officers of the Agricultural Department could get more closely in touch with the settlers at Harvey as regards to water distribution. I think they were in general way, because Mr Moody used to visit Harvey. Mr Moody used to advise more particularly on fruit work, but he had also a very good knowledge of the use of water for irrigation. However, my views was that it should be known beyond any shadow of doubt that Mr Scott would be available on all occasions.

12262. Now, getting on a little further, when you came to apply the water, what was your experience of the channels. Did you work satisfactorily?—At first, in the new channels there was a good deal of loss. But they gradually took up; and, as the Engineer in Chief says in Appendix No. 5 of his report, "I have had measurements taken of the flow in the channels whilst irrigating. These are not yet complete, but as far as they go they tend to show that leakage from the principal channels in the settlement is not serious. Measurements are being continued."

12263. But what is your opinion?—That is precisely my opinion, too.

12264. That the channels are relatively doing satisfactory work?—Yes.

12265. By Mr Venn: And are gradually improving?—Yes. They have improved very fast. We had difficulty at first, more particularly with root holes. The country originally was very closely timbered with red gum, and where the channels more particularly were altogether in cut, there were places where we cut through rotten roots. That became a pipe, and used to distribute the water from the channel. We used to hunt these places up, and fill them with clay. Now i consider the channels are very tight.

12266. By the Chairman: Would you be surprised to learn that the settlers have expressed an opposite opinion and consider the channels unsatisfactory?—I would be surprised to learn that the settlers as a whole have. Some individual might