148. By the CHAIRMAN: Do you think that a number of men on the goldfields suffering from miner's phthisis and other complaints would settle in the Esperance district provided reasonable facilities were given?—Yes. I am sure of that. No doctor could make more than a bare living at Esperance.

(The witness retired.)

WILLIAM HARDMAN, aged 55, Bricklayer and Mason, Boulder, married, 6 children—4 girls, 2 boys, ages 16 to 27; sworn and examined:

149. By the CHAIRMAN: Do you own or occupy and land in the Esperance district?—Yes, 1,160 acres at Grass Patch, Loc. 163. I have had no previous experience of farming. I took up my holding four years ago. I have cleared 300 acres, and I believe it has grown over again. I cultivated 200 acres and cropped only 100. I put in a manager, Mr. Henchman. Then I sent my two sons down. I have a fine dam of regulation capacity 10 feet deep. It has not been dry during the last three years. The water is of splendid quality. We have fenced 500 acres, but in some places with only one wire. I first put in a crop in 1913-14. We averaged 9 or 10 bushels over 100 acres. It was merely scarified in. I got a stack of hay of 15 or 16 tons. In 1914-15 I put in another 100 acres. We got approximately eight bushels. We had rust and it spoilt the crop. I do not know how much hay we got. I cannot say how much super. and seed we used. It was on the advice of Mr. Sutton.

150. By Mr. PADBURY: What labour have you employed down there?—Henchman and two men and two boys for a part of the first year. I paid £2 per week and allowed 25s. per week for tucker. To the boys I paid 30s. and 25s.

151. By the CHAIRMAN: You said you have had no previous experience?—No, but I have sought information from official quarters both in Australia and Canada. I attended an agricultural and horticultural night school here. I have kept no stock on the farm. The boy got some pigs, but I gave them away. I intend to take the wife and family down there and settle for good. I would certainly do so if we had a railway. In that case I am sure I could make the farm pay.

152. Would you leave the Esperance district to go farming in some other district?—No.

153. Not if offered another farm equally improved?—No.

154. What method of farming do you think should be adopted down there?—I propose to go in for mixed farming on the latest dry farming methods. The district has never been given a proper trial.

155. Do you think it is necessary that the Government should make tests by practical experiment before giving any more encouragement to the district?—The only drawback is the lack of railway. Given that, we can go right ahead without further experiment.

156. What would be your idea of the best way to assist farmers in the development of this district for wheat growing?—Settlers should be assisted to secure stock and take up mixed farming. I know of one party who went down there with several hundred pounds but no guidance, not even implements. They have turned out a rank failure. Mr. Johnson, Mr. Collier and Mr. Scaddan promised us every assistance, but the promise was not fulfilled. They said they would buy our wheat at standard rates, but they did not do so. Long afterwards I asked Mr. Scaddan why he did not give us assistance and he said that Mr. Paterson was quite agreeable to do so but that he (Mr. Scaddan) was not. I asked the reason why, but he did not give it to me.

157. By Mr. McDONALD: You are of opinion that if the railway were built there would be a lot of settlement there?—I am sure of it.

158. By the CHAIRMAN: Are you satisfied with the prospects of a return for your outlay down there?—I could make a nice living of it if we had a railway.

159. Have you had assistance from the Agricultural Department?—From the Industries Assistance Board, but only for super. I had a little from the Agricultural Department also.

160. Are your rents paid up?—No; I could not keep them paid up. They have promised to carry it on for me.

161. By Mr. PADBURY: How long have they undertaken to carry on for you?—No definite time. My boy having gone into camp I am now tied up.

162. By the CHAIRMAN: You have not lived down there?—No, I have had to remain here to keep things going.

163. You have kept no stock?—Only six horses. There is no poison on my land. In point of machinery I have one 6-furrow disc plough, a seed drill, harrows, and a reaper and binder.

164. How did you get your wheat stripped?—One of my neighbours did it. No assistance has been granted in the district lately. The railway is sorely required. I know some pitiful cases of people who have been practically ruined down there, notwithstanding which they would at once go back if the railway were built. (The witness retired.)

CECIL LEONARD BROWN, aged 27, Greengrocer, Boulder, unmarried, sworn and examined:

165. By the CHAIRMAN: Do you own or occupy any land in the Esperance district?—Yes, 500 acres at Scaddan. My mother and brother are in it with me. My brother has some other areas down there near the Bay. Mother has a homestead in addition to mine. Theirs and mine together total about 2,000 acres. My brother's age is 24. We all work jointly. We have a man managing down there on the share system. Previously we worked it by employing labour in addition to our own. My father is dead. We have about 200 acres cleared near Scaddan. We have cropped each year for four years. We had no previous experience of dry farming. I have always got pretty good crops. We have cut nearly everything for hay. Some we left for wheat, which was estimated would go 10 bushels, but the rain came and we lost the lot. That was last year. Not every kind of seed is suitable to the district. Alpha won't grow there with any heat in October. Turvey's Purple Straw makes little growth in the beginning, but beats the others in the end. Steinwedel is another very successful in the district. The wheat that does well at Grass Patch will not do well at Scaddan, where the rainfall is heavier. I have grown a little oats, and I understand it panned out very well. I have used about 80lbs. of super. to the acre each year. Where-ever it was sandy I used a little more. I have sown