years, notwithstanding which they have made pretty good growth. I plant potatoes in November and dig them about the end of January.Two or three crops can be grown in this season. Frosts do not trouble us. I have seen tomatoes grow right through the winter. Without a railway land values are very small indeed. If it comes to that, one may say that if we do not get the railway the district will be ruined. The population of Esperance is 250. I have known it to be 1,500. Loss of population is due entirely to want of railway communication. I have a great deal of trouble with rabbits at Dalyup. They have kept down the grass in paddocks where I used to run 20 horses all the year round. I have had to rabbit-proof fence it.

400. By Mr. McDONALD: Would the present jetty requirements be sufficient if the railway were built?—Yes, for years to come.

401. By the CHAIRMAN: You have bred numbers of horses in the district?—Yes. Horses do very well here. I have about 60 today. Late foals do very well; they grow well and make plenty of bone. The only disease to which they are subject here is chip chip, which can be avoided by giving them a change of run.

(The witness retired.)

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WILLIAM EDWARD HUGHES, AGED 73, Storekeeper and Grazier, Esperance, married, one son aged 48 years, sworn and examined:

402. By the CHAIRMAN: What land do you hold in this district?—I have 160 acres of freehold and 429 acres of C.P. at Cape leGrand, 20 acres of freehold at Lake Warden, and 20 acres and 10 acres and 5 acres at West Patch. Then I have 13½ acres on the telegraph line about three-quarters of a mile from the Esperance Post Office. I have been in Esperance for 20 years and have been storekeeping virtually the whole of that time. I have not done much cultivation. I complied with the conditions in regard to the 160 acres at Cape leGrand and sowed root crops and mixed oats and wheat. I have not had much return from that land for the reason that it is 22 miles from Esperance with very heavy roads. I could grow a good deal of stuff there if I had the marketing inducements. The land consists of red soil, blackboy country and tussocky swamps with an abundance of good water. It is excellent country for stock with patches of cultivation. It is good orchard country. I have 15 horses and 11 head of cattle down there. They do very well there except that occasionally they get a bit coasty. As storekeeper I have bought considerable quantities of local produce. When I cannot buy it locally I bring it from Albany. During the last 12 months I have bought only 12 tons of chaff from Albany. There has been sufficient chaff in the district this season to meet the local requirements if the farmers could bring it in. The obvious remedy for this is the provision of a railway. The local produce is, on the whole, of very good quality. I have had chaff from Irvine superior to any I have got from Albany, both in cut and texture. I believe the mallee farmers to the north have plenty of chaff for sale, but they cannot get it down here. In any case, they want us to take chaff or wheat in return for stores, and as we have no market here for such produce, we cannot accommodate them. I think the mallee farmers can farm their holdings at a profit if only they can reach a market. I know a farmer up there who went off to the fields and worked for wages in order to pay off his debts. He paid those debts while his crop lay on his farm undisposed of. The establishment of a flour mill is too large a proposition for Esperance.

403. By Mr. PADBURY: What is chaff worth in Esperance?—We are selling local chaff by the bag lots at 7s. 3d. per cwt. The expenses from Albany would run into £2 a ton. I do not think the 60 miles of railway would relieve the wheat situation in the mallee. There is not enough inward cargo to induce a wheat ship to come here. I have two orchards at Cape leGrand, the trees are producing very well. They are within half a mile of the sea. Root crops do very well there. I have produced mangles up to 30 lbs. each. I have a three-roomed house lined with weather boards, stock yards, piggeries, and fowl houses. I have had no Government assistance whatever. Fencing and draining cost me £334. My fencing cost £18 a mile for labour. My buildings I value at £170. Farming implements and harness represent £35. I have spent on the property £1,100. My idea was to provide a boat service across the bay which would enable me to compete with the farmers along the railway. For 12 months I was lessee of the jetty. Fairly big interstate boats have used that jetty and I am sure that a light locomotive would do all the necessary work on the jetty for years to come. There was 17 tons in one truck on that jetty two or three weeks ago.

(The witness retired.)

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WILLIAM DAMES KINGSMILL, aged 66, prospector, Esperance, married, no children—sworn and examined:

404. By the CHAIRMAN: What land do you hold in this district?—I have two town lots Nos. 62 and 63, in Dempster-street, Esperance, and 10 acres of garden area at Pink Lake, 10 acres on the Pink Lake Road one mile from Esperance, and 21 town blocks in Esperance. I selected 1,000 acres of C.P. mallee country, two miles north of Swan Lagoon, in 1910, but I have paid no rent on it for a long time. I made no improvements on it. Heenan, my neighbour, and I let a contract jointly to a man but he did not carry it out. Altogether I paid a little over £60 in rent on this land. It was my intention to work this land, but I came to see that there was no chance of working it profitably without a railway. I have had experience, other than farming, of mallee country in Victoria, in New South Wales, and in South Australia. I know Yorke's Peninsula and I think I have been through the Pineroo country. I have been all over the mallee country north of Esperance, and I think it compares favourably with any I have seen because it is better holding ground and has a better average rainfall than most mallee. I have never seen onions grow so well as they do in this district. I came to Esperance two and a half years ago.

405. By Mr. PADBURY: What was your idea in taking up the land? —I thought I could do something with it when the railway came. It was generally understood that there was to be a railway im-