about the similarity of conditions. The two States are not alike.

545. By Mr. PADBURY: Do you think that the mallee land towards Esperance would be a business proposition if there was a railway?— I do not know that a railway helps to grow wheat.

546. It would probably be the means of reducing the cost of handling the crop?— That is so.

547. Do you think the lands are all right for growing wheat?— I am undecided as to whether it is the land or the rainfall that is against it. I do not know whether there is a proper sequence in connection with the rainfall, because the records have been kept by interested people.

548. You have no knowledge as to whether the rain falls during the growing months or not?— I should like the records to be kept by some really responsible man before expressing an opinion.

549. I think there is some mention of the harbour at Esperance in one of your reports?— I think that I stated that it was a matter for the engineers.

550. You said something about conflicting reports?— I never read the reports. That may have been rumoured.

551. By the CHAIRMAN: Is there any other matter of value that you could give evidence upon before the Commission?— I do not think the statements of Mr. White are verified in his reports to us upon the crops. He made statements to the Commission which are not in accordance with the statements he made on paper. If any experiments have been made I do not know of them, but I would like them to have been made. So far as reports that we have are concerned, there is nothing in them which would justify the bank taking a risk at Esperance. What I would like to know is, why did they not grow wheat there for eight or ten years before the advisory board reported on the district? That is something I would like you to think about. I made inquiries down there and they told me that the Swan Lagoon for 10 years had practically no water in it. that was prior to 1910. The Swan Lagoon is one of the best catchments there.

552. You can take it for granted that the dams at the present time are full of water?— We know that, but what happened to cause the Swan Lagoon to remain dry for 10 years? There might be a repetition of that.

553. There are the meteorological reports of the rainfall?— If they can grow wheat or hay profitably in that district and can clear land for 30s. an acre, why did they not grow it instead of carting it from Esperance after having had it brought round from the Great Southern districts?

554. By Mr. PADBURY: Were they in the position to do it?— They were carting stuff to Norseman and selling it there after having had it brought round such a distance when it would have been cheaper to grow on the spot. There should have been a lot of money in it, but they did not do it. Why?

555. By the CHAIRMAN: Did anyone know anything about wheat growing? — There was Grass Patch; they could see that. Grass Patch is an oasis in that desert.

556. By Mr. PADBURY: South Australia has only just come along lately with its mallee lands?— All mallee in the other States will grow some sort of crop without a fertiliser. Our mallee will grow nothing without a fertiliser. That is what I gather.

557. By the CHAIRMAN: Are you prepared to make that statement with reference to all mallee there?— No; there is mallee and mallee. There are a few pockets where you will get a fair crop, but there are others where the country is quite different. That is Western Australia all over.

558. By Mr. McDONALD: Fertiliser is used more extensively in Western Australia than in the other States?— I believe so. 559. By the CHAIRMAN: It is not used on South Australian mallee lands?— The mallee lands there are fairly rich. In regard to Esperance, where would the Bank have been landed if it had advanced money on the land there?— There would have been no rents and no interest. I have never been able to understand why that country has not produced better crops. I think I was always justified in saying we should go slowly there. If the Government had thought that country good they certainly would have assisted it, but apparently there was no desire that Government funds should be wasted. If the Government had indemnified the Bank I would have given the people at Esperance as much money as they wanted.

560. What is your opinion of the class of settlers on the mallee today?— I only know Lewis.

561. The Bank probably knows them?— They have never come near the bank. I have not seen their methods and I do not know anything about them.

562. Do you think that, in your position as manager of the Agricultural Bank, it would have been of considerable value to you to have studied the methods adopted on the South Australian mallee lands?— I have not a single penny voted for me to do what you suggest. That is the work of the Agricultural Department, and it should be so, too. I would like to add that in my opinion no land should be offered for selection until the lands Department are satisfied that it will grow what they say it is surveyed to grow.

563. Are you prepared to take up the position that the Esperance lands will not grow wheat?— I do not say that, but I have not seen anything that would justify me in saying it will grow wheat successfully or profitably.

564. Does it not depend entirely upon facilities for getting the produce to market?— Of course the man alongside the railway station with a magnificent bit of country Is not handicapped like the man who may be 12 miles away, and who, also, may be on land which is not so good. It is a sinful thing to allow people to select land when it is not known whether or not it will grow wheat. You have only to refer to the wodgil country, which is the rottenest stuff that was ever offered to any one.

565. By Mr. PADBURY: Do you not think that it is good enough to experiment to see whether wheat could be grown on these lands?— If you like to say that what has been done is an experiment I am prepared to let it rest at that, but I thank the Lord that I have not advanced money to them.

566. Have you not heard that in South Australia it takes three or four years to get rid of the mallee and that very poor crops result at the start?— Not always; there are many classes of mallee. At Esper-