this accumulative rainfall does not affect wheat, as for instance, that in November, December, January, and February.

657. We understand they get about 7½ inches during the growing period?—That is just sufficient. It occurred to me that the cause of failure at Esperance is not to be found in the rainfall.

658. I believe that in Pinnaroo and Lameroo, South Australia, it takes three or four years to get the land fit to grow a good crop?—Yes. There appears to be something in the mallee land deleterious to wheat, and of course this has to be worked out.

659. This year there is a number of decent crops in the Esperance district?—I would expect them to be better than they have been.

660. Yet it has been an uncommonly dry year down there. The rainfall to the end of October was 9.80 inches?—It seems to have been a fairly favourable rainfall for wheat.

661. Do you not think there is a good reason to hope that the mallee land there will eventually prove to be good wheat country?—From observation I should think it was a distant hope. The mallee land there is very patch. There are some fair sized areas there which ought to give anything from 16 to 25 bushels. Mr. Cooke and myself were much surprised to find that some of those areas which had been cultivated for three years did not get past eight bushels.

662. By Mr. PADBURY: Can you account for the better crops this year, seeing that the rain has been light?—I should want to know what proportion of the area they had in two or three years ago is under crop this year. If there has been a decrease of cultivation, depend upon it the settlers have struck to the best patches of land. It would probably be found that the most promising lands have been cultivated. It would not be a fair criterion to apply this year's test to that of the year before.

663. How do you account for the lightness of the yields in the past?—We concluded that one factor was the presence of salt in the soil. Mr. Mann's analyses fully confirmed our suspicious, based on practical observation of the frequency of saline plants and the presence everywhere of salt lakes. The most damaging feature of the Esperance district, apart from wheat, is that grass will not grow on land cultivated and fertilised for three years. We could not attribute the want of grass to the rainfall. We had to seek for other reasons. We all recognise that without recourse to stock and sheep and mixed farming the prospects of the wheat growing farmer are hopeless. What is the use of recommending a number of farmers to go to a district and start wheat farming and sheep raising in face of the fact that the grass takes years to grow? Very few of the farmers could show us any grass that one might say one could write home about. There are one or two other reasons. We have no right to assume positively that what we suspect about salt is sufficient to put this district out of the running; there was, however, a deficiency in phosphates. We were particular in ascertaining whether there were any places which had been missed by the drill. In several instances we found such places, and in such places the appearance of the crop was hopeless. There was a little dwarfed stem of plant of some 12 to 15 inches in height, and a little head hardly an inch long.On either side of these missed places the crop appeared to be going to yield from five to six bushels. Mr. Mann mentions in his report also a deficiency of nitrogen and humus. This deficiency, apart from the salt, would largely account for the absence of grass. Where soil is deficient in humus there is always a problem before those who are cultivating it. How is it possible to build up the humus in soil which will not produce a good growth of grass or produce soil crops. Any one applying mineral manures to land which, in the first instance, is deficient in humus, must be faced with an ugly problem. All the farmers in those particular districts are faced with that ugly problem, All the framers in those particular districts are faced with that ugly problem and will have to realise that the humus in the soil is declining and that they are not building it up. In Esperance the problem is accentuated. They started there without much humus. It is rather deficient in all mallee soil.

664. Have you not discovered in many of the forest lands that the grass takes years to grow?—It grows in that class of country directly the tree are got rid of. Even in Norseman, where the rainfall is less, we see far more grass in 100 acres than in a couple of thousand acres in Esperance. I do not say there will not be a considerable amount of wheat produced in Esperance, but whether it will be a payable proposition for the poor cocky or not, is another question.

665. Do you think that if there was sufficient salt in the ground to prevent wheat growing that it would affect the water in the tanks?—No, that is quite a delusion. I know parts of the country which are absolutely salt, but in which the water is tolerably fresh. The water in those tanks is rain water, and flows in from the catchments. We know that the anticipations of Mr. Paterson were, judging from the look of the country, that there would be great difficulty in conserving water. We found that his apprehensions in that respect were not borne out by experience, though there was a great deal to justify them. Anyone accustomed to tank water conservation, looking at that land and that soil, would say that it was a bad catchment. Although there is on the surface loose soil to a depth of some five or six inches, which would cause one to think that the country woluld never make good catchments for water, underneath there is almost cemented pan of subsoil, and the rain, when it falls in sufficient quantities, soaks through the top soil and runs down on the hard pan into the tanks. We saw dozens of tanks concerning which there was nothing to complain of in the matter of holding water. Mr. Paterson acknowledges that he could only judge from surface appearances, and thought, as a good many people would have done, that probably there would be a difficulty in catching water. The pan is not a good thing for agriculturists, but it is good for catching water.

666. Is not this hard pan found in other parts of the State, especially in forest country?—Yes. Very often there are seven or eight inches of good land on top. Some of the land in Esperance is a bit light on top.

667. By the CHAIRMAN: In these mallee thickets it must take a few years for the grass seeds to spread and grow sufficiently well for fodder?—The experience of farmers, after having rung and cleared their