872. He is the surveyor who has classified the whole of this country?— He was one of them. I might almost call him one of the pioneers of the district.

873. I suppose you know Mr. Middleton?— Yes, he passed the same examination as I did in New South Wales.

874. We have not been able to get his report from the office?— His report has been printed; I saw it at Esperance.

875. But newspaper reports, not the original?— A copy of his report was got out by the League at Kalgoorlie.

876. These newspaper reports are much condensed?— Still, I think it would give a fair idea of what his report is. There ought to be no trouble in getting it in the Lands Department.

877. Mr. Middleton collected a number of samples of soil and there was a plan showing where they were taken from. Have you seen one of those plans?— No.

878. Did you see any crops growing in the district while you were there?— No. I have only been in the mallee country once, but I saw fine crops of live mallee roots, which I understand is the cause of the trouble that good crops are not being got off the land.

879. By Mr. McDONALD: Mr. Middleton appears to have dealt with country 15 miles on either side of the railway?— I could not say.

880. I do not think he went further west than 15 miles of the railway?— I think he must have gone further than that.

881. He states in his report that that is so?—The mallee belt must run 80 miles east. I think he must have gone considerably over 15 miles. The belt runs right down to Israelite Bay.

882. I mean on the westward side?— It runs to Ravensthorpe.

883. You do no know if he went further than the 15 miles?— No, Mr. Canning should be able to give you definite information as Mr. Middleton was working under him.

884. The CHAIRMAN: Mr Canning stated he had not seen Mr. Middleton's report.

885. By Mr. McDONALD: The last classification Mr. Middleton made was sent to Mr. O'Brien?— From what I have seen of the country it does not want much classification. It is much of a muchness. It is unbroken, with the exception of the salt lakes. And there is not much difference in the soil. That is the impression I formed, although I have not seen any crops growing, but the land is full of live mallee roots.

886. By Mr. PADBURY: Did you survey any swamps in this third class land?— Yes.

887. Fit for growing produce?— Yes, some of them. They were small in extent. In my opinion, the better class of land is in the suburban areas of Esperance away from the swamps. The majority of swamps are brackish.

888. How far would it be from Esperance that you surveyed?— About five miles, roughly speaking; an average distance of from five the six miles, but it was principally sand plain country. I have been 100 miles east, as far as Cape Arid, but it is mostly coastal country and sand plain.

889. By the CHAIRMAN: Was Mr. Crawford surveying in the mallee?— I think he was prior to my going there, and it is 2½ years since I left the district.

(The witness retired.)

GEORGE LOWE SUTTON, Agricultural Commissioner for the Wheat Belt, sworn and examined:

890. By the CHAIRMAN: What experience have you had in the wheat growing?— I have had experience in New South Wales and during the past five years in Western Australia.

891. I understand you have visited the Esperance mallee district on several occasions; what was the object of those visits?— The primary object was the arrange financial assistance for the settlers, and incidentally to endeavour to convey information and instructions to the settlers.

892. Were you ever asked to report on the land?— Never.

893. Did you form any opinion of the land on the occasion of those visits?— One could not help but form some opinion, but I never went into the question, as I was not primarily concerned in it.

894. What opinion did you form of the land there?— Some land is good some is medium, and some is poor for wheat growing.

895. A vote of £50,000 was placed under your control for the development of this land, and naturally you would make it your business to know whether this money could be invested satisfactorily; that is to say, you would have to be satisfied that the district could be made productive?— The policy of the government was to develop that district as far as possible.

896. Whether profitably or not?— That aspect has been settled before I came on the scene.

897. Then you are not prepared to express an opinion on that subject?— I have not given an opinion

898. What led up to the scheme, and how did it succeed?— I am speaking from memory now. My first visit was towards the end of 1911. I went down to inquire into the possibility of giving effect to some of the recommendations made by Mr. Paterson, managing trustee of the Agricultural Bank. Those recommendations were not given effect to because there was a change in Government, and the Government policy was to develop the Esperance wheat area. There was set aside a sum of £50,000 and I was entrusted with the administration of it. I then paid another visit to the area, to ascertain as well as could be what the settlers' needs were, and what were their particular problems. They were in great need of financial assistance at that time. I discussed various matters with them, and eventually outlined a scheme which provided that the money which the Government were advancing should be utilised for the stable improvements of the farms. The amount allocated to each settler was limited to £500. This I did not consider was sufficient to enable a settler to put his farm in running order so that it would be sufficiently productive to keep him without further financial assistance. I therefore, arranged that the purpose for which the Government money should be advanced should be in the direction of providing water supplies first, and clearing. There were to be 400 acres cleared, and that would enable the settler to have a system of fallowing which I considered