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Mallee - Part 2
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1134. Is a statement of carbonates as carbonate of soda ever used in soil salt investigations?—This will frequently be found in the literature on the subject of soil investigations. 1135. Is there any difficulty in stating carbonates as carbonate of soda?—No. 1136. Would the method of statement affect the process of analysis for carbonates?—No. 1137. Do you consider Professor Paterson knew that carbonic acid as carbonates was not necessarily carbonate of soda?—Yes. 1138. Should the interpretation of the figures stated as carbonate of soda lie with the analyst, or with the man reporting on the problem?—Undoubtedly with the man reporting on the problem. 1139. Mr. Mann says that Professor Paterson prescribed wrong methods of analysis. Is there anything to show this?—There is nothing to show this in the communication from the Professor of Agriculture to the Acting Government Analyst. He is making a request which is the usual type of request, and in the usual phraseology. (The witness retired.) EDWARD SYDNEY SIMPSON, Government Mineralogist and Chemist, sworn and examined: 1140. By the CHAIRMAN: Do you consider that samples of soil for analysis of salt should be taken only from lands which might be expected to grow wheat, or should samples also be taken from salt flats, or should samples also be taken from salt flats in order to trace the movements of salt?—For the reason that I am not an agricultural chemist, though I have made analyses of soil for agricultural purposes, I would not like to answer that question. For any ordinary scientific investigation I should say that the samples should be taken over the whole of the land, including all classes and descriptions. 1141. Would you agree with Mr. Mann if he says that an officer who took samples from salt flats had not carried out his duty properly?—There, again, from the agricultural aspect, I cannot say. From the general scientific standpoint I should say that samples should be taken everywhere. 1142. Would you expect to get a true insight into the occurrence of salt by taking samples only from lands supposed to be suitable for cultivation?—No. 1143. Would you consent to report on the soil of a district unless you knew whence and with what object individual samples had been taken? —I would not report on soils from the agricultural standpoint at all because I am not an agricultural chemist. 1144. Here is a copy of a letter of instructions, dated 15th of November, 1916, addressed by Professor Paterson to the Acting Government Analyst (quoted in question 1124). Have you read it?—Yes. 1145. Did Professor Paterson in that letter ask for a determination of chlorine to be stated as sodium chloride?—He says chlorine may be stated as its equivalent of sodium chloride. 1146. Was this a proper request?—Yes, in the form in which he has worded it. 1147. Do you consider that Professor Paterson understood what he was asking when he requested that sulphuric acid should be stated as sulphate of soda?—Yes. 1148. Is there any chemical objection to doing this?—No, with the reservation that Professor Paterson would understand that all sulphuric acid is not present in the soil as sulphate of soda, whilst others might not. 1149. Would the method of stating sulphuric acid as sulphate of soda affect the process of analysis?—No, not in any way. 1150. Can you explain why Mr. Mann should now disclaim his results for sulphuric acid in terms of sulphate of soda?—No, I cannot. 1151. Do you know if a statement of sulphuric acid as sulphate of soda has been employed elsewhere in soil salt investigations?—I cannot say. 1152. Will you refer to Bulletin 145 of the Utah Agricultural College Experiment Station, page 4, headed " Method of Analysis" (produced). What have you to say about this?—I see that in this Bulletin all the sulphuric acid is stated as sulphate of soda, but I am not sure that the conditions of the Utah soils are the same as the conditions of our soils here. What is stated in the Bulletin may be justified so far as those soils are concerned, but may not be justified with our soils. 1153. Did Professor Paterson ask in his letter for carbonic acid as carbonates, or as stated by Mr. Mann, did he ask for the carbonic acid in the soil?—He distinctly asks for carbonic acid as carbonates. 1154. Is there a chemical difference?—Yes. What Professor Paterson does ask for is carbonic acid as water soluble carbonates. That is very different to asking for the total carbonic acid in the soil. There is a great deal of carbonic acid which is not water soluble at all in most soils. He starts this particular section of his letter by asking for the determination of water extracts, that is the water soluble carbonic acids as carbonates. 1155. Is a statement of carbonates as carbonate of soda ever used in soil salt investigations?—This Utah Bulletin says so, but I have no experience of my own in regard to it. 1156. Is there any difficulty in stating carbonates as carbonate of soda?—No. It is simply a matter of calculation. 1157. Would the method of statement affect the process of analysis for carbonates?—It would not affect the methods of analyses, though it might affect the interpretation of them. 1158. Do you consider that Professor Paterson knew that carbonic acid as carbonates was not necessarily carbonate of soda?—Yes. 1159. Should the interpretation of the figures stated as carbonate of soda lie with the analyst, or with the man reporting on the problem?—Very often the analyst is the person who is reporting on the problem. The analyst, as a rule, is called upon to interpret his own results, and the answer to your question would be that the responsibility of interpretation would lie with both of them. The results or figures arrived at by the analyst would in a large number of cases not be understood by the person to whom he handed them, unless he accompanied his figures with a more or less extensive interpretation of them. 1160. Mr. Mann says that Professor Paterson prescribed wrong methods of analysis. Is there anything to show this?—There is no method prescribed. The only detail that he prescribed was that a water extract was to be made. (The witness retired.) The Commission adjourned.
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