WEDNESDAY, 2nd OCTOBER, 1918. (At Perth)

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Present: Hon. W. C. Angwin, M.L.A. (Chairman). Hon. J.F. Allen, M.L.C. S.M. Brown, Esq., M.L.A. T.H. Harrison, Esq., M.L.A.

——————— THOMAS SYDNEY JOHN HALL, recalled and further examined: 7324a. By the CHAIRMAN: The Commission desire to obtain all the papers dealing with the gristing of wheat. Have you brought them?—I have sent up all the papers in connection with the present agreement and I have with me all I know of in connection with the negotiations for the proposed agreement, or the modification of the present agreement. 7325. Mr. Robinson told me over the telephone that he desired us to regard certain of the papers as confidential. Have you those? — Yes, and I have specially marked the particular items to be regarded as confidential. The Minister has asked me to suggest to you that even among yourselves you agree to regard those items as strictly confidential. 7326. You also have the minute book of the Advisory Board up to date? — Yes, and I have marked in it certain items which the Minister and the board desire shall be regarded as confidential. 7327. What check have you on the millers and their output? — A check is ensured principally by two inspectors — Inspector Gillespie from the practical milling standpoint, and Inspector Watson, our auditor, of accounts of the various mills. 7328. How close up is that check maintained? — It is a continuous check, the two officers being engaged entirely on that work. Two or three weeks may elapse between visits to a particular mill. 7329. Then there would be no difficulty in our getting the exact position up to say a month ago? — There should be no difficulty except that one or two mills are behind with their returns. 7330. Then how can you keep up the payments for the gristing and the product at 14 days as arranged under the agreement? — They pay sufficiently large sums to cover that approximately. Our advice is that generally speaking the mills are well up with their payments. There may be £20, £30 or even £100 requiring adjustment, but we are dealing to the tune of thousands per week and generally speaking the payments are up to date. In speaking of returns our main difficulty was in respect of stock returns. 7331. That is the product which they had in stock? — Which they had in stock on the 3rd November at the start of the agreement. 7332. That is what Mr. Rae has been investigating? — Not altogether. What he was adjudicating upon was the basis of valuing these stocks, not necessarily assessing the quantity. 7333. How can you get the quantities now if they were not corrected before this? Was not a check made at the time? — So far as it could be obtained. There was no means of actually counting the stocks on hand. They were built in such a way that it was impossible at that particular time to arrive at the full extent of the stocks. We have had to work back. In some mills it took three or four months to get at the original stocks. That is what has meant such a heavy task to our accountant's branch. 7334. Then you would have to base the stock in accordance with the quantity of wheat they have taken in since. If you had considerably more flour than the wheat should turn out and put that balance down as stock which they had prior to that time? — They have had to work back. There have been great difficulties because of the different capacities of the various mills. 7335. In view of the difficulty you had with the mills at the start do you not think it would have been advisable even at a little extra cost if you made sure of the position this time before going on with the other contract, especially as certain men are trying to get at the Scheme? — True. That is why we are so particular in connection with this coming arrangement. 7336. Would it not have been possible to get very close to their stocks at the time? — No. You had to take more or less on trust what they at that time disclosed. This was all done in the few days between the time of Mr. Sibbalds's resignation and the departure of the Minister for the Eastern States in November. 7337. I notice from the file that the millers claim on 25,000 tons of Imperial flour 2½ per cent. on gristing, which they had done prior to the contract being entered into. Was there an agreement with the millers prior to the last agreement for gristing? — Yes, in connection with the Imperial flour, but it was not a gristing agreement. They bought the wheat and sold the flour to the Scheme for the Imperial order. 7338. They got 2½ per cent. on that in addition to the price they were getting for the flour?—I do not think that is quite the position. The allowance of 2½ per cent. on the Imperial order is rather a complicated matter, I should like to set it out. There will be a lot of argument with the individual millers and the officers of the Scheme, and the Minister and Mr. Sutton who were the men really responsible for agreeing to it. 7338A. It appears from the file that for that 25,000 tons they got £10 18s. 6d. at Fremantle and 2½ per cent. in addition on all stocks they had, which amounted to approximately 25,000 tons? — Not exactly on all stocks they had. The different mills had different quotas to supply on the Imperial order. 7339. You notice that 2½ per cent. runs into about 5s. 6d. a ton and the instructions from the Imperial Wheat Board were that the price must not exceed £11. Who would stand the loss if it went over £11? I am referring to the Imperial order? — Any payment over that would have to be borne by the local pool. 7340. The Act refers to a commission of 2½ per cent. on flour in respect to the unmilled portion of the millers' quota of the Imperial order, which the millers are unable to deliver owing to having entered into this contract. That, however, is very indefinite? — They said they had been milling for flour for local consumption or for export, an action they contended assisted the Scheme, and consequently did not mill their full quota. These millers said to the Minister, "It is fair that we should get 2 ½ per cent. commission on our unmilled portion, because the other mills have milled for the Imperial order and have got their full price under the Imperial contract. We are now entering into this gristing agreement — I think they said it with their tongue in their cheek — and are assisting the Scheme in other ways, such as gristing wheat into flour for export and local consumption. We have for the unmilled portion been deprived of the high price for flour that millers get under the Imperial flour contract." My own opinion is that they are doing better under this gristing agreement than they did under their sale of flour to the Scheme for the Imperial order. 7340A. This really refers to the wheat which was sent in to the mills without being purchased by them? — It was portion of the stock on hand. They had purchased the wheat for gristing for the Imperial order with the idea of selling the flour to the Scheme for the Imperial order. On the 3rd November, when the gristing arrangements were made, they had this wheat on hand ungristed, or alternatively they had the flour on hand gristed but not delivered to the Imperial order. They said " The Scheme are going to take over all our stocks. We would be able under ordinary circumstances to sell this product and get 2½ per cent. commission, so it is fair to pay us the 2½ per cent. commission now." 7341. I do not understand the position. They purchased the wheat first from the Scheme at 4s. 9d. per bushel? — Yes, and they do not pay for it until the flour is shipped.