THURSDAY, 10th OCTOBER, 1918.
                                                                                                    (At Perth.)
                                                                                                     -----------
                                                                                                     Present:

                                                                              Hon. W.C. Angwin, M.L.A.  (Chairman),
                                                                              S.M.  Brown, Esq., M.L.A.,
                                                                              T.H.  Harrison, Esq., M.L.A.

ROSS STAPLEY CHILD, Accountant, State Wheat Marketing Scheme, further examined:

7393. By the CHAIRMAN: We are now making some inquiries, particularly in regard to gristing. You have a return handed in here, Which I assume you tender as evidence? — I formally put in that return as evidence. 7394. The return gives you the quantity of wheat gristed from the 3rd November, 1917, up to the 31st, August of this year? — Yes. 7395. Have you any check on the mills since the 31st August up to date? — We have a check on all the mills up to the 28th September. We have their returns, and there will be a few odd mills with their returns in for the weeks succeeding that period. 7396. Do the returns which you are getting in enable you to keep a complete check on the various mills regarding the quantity of flour they are turning out for the wheat that they receive, so that you will be able to make an comparison as to weather they turn out the quantity of flour corresponding with the wheat sent in? — We can do that if we work on the clean bushel, but we cannot get a comparison when we take into account the waste, unless the mills have cleaned up or unless we estimate the waste. 7397. That means, unless the mills close down to take stock you cannot get a complete return? — It is not so necessary to close down. The mills could continue to run right on, providing all the stuff which came off one particular shift was stacked separately while the rest of the stacks were being counted. But the trouble is that wheat in a stack is really not countable. Neither is offal unless it is very carefully stacked, and also stacked in uniform sizes, which is rather unusual. 7398. When starting the gristing on the 3rd November, 1917, did you have a complete check then as regards the stocks which the mills had in hand? — We had not at that date, and worked back from those counts the figures to the 3rd November. 7399. Will that give you a complete check or only an approximate one? — Providing that no fraud was attempted, and I do not think there has in any case been, the check would be reasonably correct. I would not say, absolutely correct; but the difference would be minor. 7400. The agreement runs out in November next? — Yes; on the 2nd November. 7401. What method do you propose to adopt them in regard to the checking of the wheat already gristed? — About a week before Mr Hall was here, the mills were written to requesting that wheat which they could not mill out or approximately mill out by the 2nd November should be stacked in separate stacks, and that accurate records should be kept of the quantities, so that when agreement finalised we could say that certain stacks contained certain wheat; and the other wheat which they had kept for current consumption would be so minor that there would be no difficulty in affixing what was there on the 2nd of November. 7402. When you were here previously you pointed out that in accordance with some of the returns received you were as much as 8,000 bushels out sometimes. Is not likely to happen again? — We can be 8,000 bushels out before the count is taken; but after the count is has been made and the figures worked back, if there is any work back effected, any difference like that should be immediately disclosed, the same as it was in the item under discussion. The item under discussion, for example, was unknown until such time as a mill out was effected. When the mill out had been effected, the difference between the total millings and the total wheat sent into the mill was disclosed; and it showed that the milling records were some 8,000 bushels short of the actual wheat milled. 7403. That indicates a possibility, then, that the millers had sold the product of wheat to their private customers and not accounted for it to the Scheme until you had your check? — That is exactly the position. 7404. Then the millers were using the money of the farmers, which should have been paid to the Scheme for the wheat? — During the period over which the shortage occurred they had the use of the money, which should have been paid. That is the position. 7405. You are taking every care this time that if a new contract is entered into you will be able to star on a solid foundation? — Yes. In connection with the wheat, the mills were all written to about a fortnight ago, and in connection with the offal about a week ago; the mills were asked to acknowledge the letters, and replies have been received from about half the mills saying that they follow out the instructions. 7406. You have been unable, by reason of the quality of wheat, to strike a percentage between the various mills as regards the proportion of flour? — No. We have taken an estimate of the waste, and the percentage as far as we can reasonably assume it at the present time is shown in the return. 7407. But the figures in this return are an estimate; they do not represent what has actually taken place?— The columns showing flour, bran, and pollard are actual; as is also the columns showing screenings sold. The column showing waste is an estimate. That estimate, I may say was got out by a man who knows considerable about milling, and whose sole duty it is to journey to each of the various mills, watching the method of milling in the interests of the Scheme; so that, as far as possible, the mills shall be made to obtain the biggest extraction they can. 7408. You see there is a very large difference here between the percentages of the various mills of estimated screening and waste? — That is so. The various mills use different means of treating their waste. Some mills, for example, have a machine which will turn a considerable quantity of the waste into offal, which is the bran and pollard. Other mills lack that machinery, and consequently their offal, though of a better grade, is not so large in quantity; and consequently those mills show larger percentages of waste than others show. Another reason, of course, is that quality. 7409. We noticed that applies right through, in regard to flour as well? — That is so. Some mills are so built that can get better extraction of flour than others. The more modern mill obtains a larger extraction. 7410. Then there is a loss to the Scheme under such conditions as these, owing to variation in prices? — Of course the less flour extracted the more waste, and correspondingly less proceeds to the Scheme. 7411. Would it be advisable, when making a further agreement, that the return from the millers should be taken into consideration when fixing the price for gristing? — The extraction depends not only upon the machinery, but also upon the quality of the wheat supplied. Consequently, there would be some considerable difficulty to locate the shortage of extraction as between the quality of the wheat and the machinery. 7412. Is there very much difference in quality of the wheat? — At the present time there is a considerable difference. 7413. We were at Katanning the other day and we saw that the wheat which was being received at the mill there was very bad. Yet they turned out 40.38? — That is fairly low, though it is higher than some of the others. 7414. By Mr Brown: They have milling Albany wheat? — Largely. I have very little to do with the wheat that goes into the mills; that is sent forward by the general manager and the outdoor wheat inspectors.