7641. The agreement has not many weeks to go though? — About a fortnight.

7642. You tell us that each miller has been communicated with desiring him to make preparations, in case the contract is continued after the 3rd November, for the taking of a proper stock? — That is so.

7643. Do you know whether that instruction is being carried out? — I have not been out since that letter was written, but I understand that Inspector Gillespie has been attending to the matter, and that about half of the millers have replied to the effect that the instructions in the letters would be carried out.

7644. You now have a uniform system of returns for all the mills? — Yes; they are all the same.

7645. And all the mills have agreed to carry out that uniform system? — Yes.

7646. That will make the work much easier? — Yes.

MATTHEW JAMES CARLISLE GILLESPIE, Miller, and Inspector of Mills, sworn and examined:

7647. By the CHAIRMAN: Will you give the Commission any information you can with regard to the work in connection with the mills? — I attend to the percentages and to the general working of the mill, look after the wheat they are receiving and see to the class of wheat they get when I am there. If there is any trouble it is held up for inspection.

7648. Do you find there is any difference in the class of wheat which goes into various mills? — A decided difference. As for the average to each mill, it is hard to determine the actual difference.

7649. Take the November return; that will be based on the average. Would there be much difference in the average quality of the wheat at the different mills? — York, Pingelly, Northam, Narrogin, Kellerberrin, Wagin and Katanning had a better class of wheat. Cottesloe, East Perth, Geraldton, Perth and Guildford have had a lower quality of wheat by reason of the fact it it has been more weevily.

7650.By Mr. HARRISON: Are you correct with regard to Wagin and Katanning on account of their milling Albany wheat?—They have had a lower proportion than the city mills. The city mills have been drawing heavily on Fremantle wheat.

7651. By the CHAIRMAN: by reason of those mills getting a better quality of wheat their returns to the Scheme should be higher? — Yes, on paper. The mills are not all equipped in the same way. If you give individual mills f.a.q. wheat and weevily wheat they will naturally turn out a better percentage from the good wheat. Take two mills and put both on the same quality of wheat. They will not give you the same percentage of product. That will be owing to the mill.

7652. From a financial point of view as it affects the Scheme, the mill that turns out the largest percentage of flour is the more beneficial? — Of a standard yes.

7653. All these mills have to turn their wheat out at 70 per cent? — They are expected to get a maximum extraction of flour of 70 per cent.

7654. Do you think from the quality of wheat there should be a great difference shown from the various mills as would appear from the return? — There are many things to be taken into consideration. There are mills which will always turn out a better percentage of flour than others, even though they are on a lower quality of wheat.

7655. When the Scheme were fixing up arrangements for gristing for the future, did they consult you? — Yes, on various points.

7656. can you tell us why the Scheme are offering a larger amount for gristing in some of these places which have turned out the smallest percentage of flour? — No, only to give a working margin. It is very hard to class these mills. We have at least four ranges of mills in this State.

7657. So the poorer the mill so far as machinery is concerned, the worse it is for the Scheme financially? — That is so.

7658. Do you take a check of the percentages turned out in regard to the wheat put into the mill to see that they are supplying the quantity and quality of flour necessary and also keeping up the percentages? — Yes, on every opportunity. If I am not present myself one of the other inspectors will draw samples from the packer, and bring them down to me.

7659. You know that last year when the gristing contract was started at midnight on 3rd November, there was no check taken of the stocks? — I do not know what happened before the 2nd January, when I joined the Scheme.

7660. You have had to work back to ascertain what stocks they had on hand? — That is not my work. I have counted certain mill stacks since joining the Scheme.

7661. Did you not find a difficulty in country because of the bad stacking? — In those cases I turned down the mill until they had the stacks uniform.

7662. Were the mills stopped? — No, they disposed of their stacks which could not be counted accurately. New stacks had to be put up in a uniform way so that they could be counted.

7663. Some considerable time elapsed then? — Roughly a fortnight or three weeks.

7664. Do you find that the mills are keeping regular accounts of each shift that is worked in regard to their output? — Yes. They are keeping tally of the stuff that comes off.

7665. That is always available to the Scheme? — Yes.

7666. I notice here a minute dated the 26th September, 1918, from Mr. Watson. (Read:) You will notice the date of what minute is 10 months after they had been working under the agreement and before they were able to finalise. The position as far as that mill is concerned is that they have stocks in hand on the 3rd November, and it shows there must have been some difficulty in not being able to take stocks at that date? — I had nothing to do with taking the stocks at this mill except a rough count on each visit.

7667. But that shows there was a difficulty in taking 10 months to ascertain what amount of stock there was on the 3rd November? — Yes.

7668. You are aware a percentage had to be paid on the amount, that is the flour had to be taken over and a percentage paid? — Yes.

7669. That could not be rectified until they were in a position to know what the stocks were at the mill at that time? — Yes.

7670. Do you think it is possible to get an accurate position until the clean-up takes place? — No, I do not. 7671. Therefore, it is only finalised as near as they can get it? — Yes.

7672. You have had experience as a miller? — Yes.

7673. Can you give us any information as to the working costs of gristing? — They vary very much indeed, according to the size of the mill. There is a considerable difference.

7674. What was considered an average margin for gristing? — It varies to the extent of from a five to a 40-bag up to 16s. or 17s. a ton.

7675. What is a fair cost of gristing? — On what size mill?

7676. I am not taking the mill but taking the cost to the Scheme. What is a fair cost as far as gristing is concerned? — Of weevily wheat?

7677. Yes? — It is hard to say. You mean an average of the mills?

7678. Yes? — I have drawn up a rough statement. I make half a ton mill, that is half a ton an hour, work out at £1 6s. 9d. a ton.

7679. Is that working costs and sinking fund? — It means receiving wheat, milling wages in connection with milling, which includes the salaries of the manager, clerk and a boy, fuel, stores, light, interest, depreciation, rates and insurance; bags, repairs, petty expenses, and audit are not taken into account.

7680. I am dealing with gristing, not bags? — That is for receiving wheat into the mill, milling it, and delivering it to truck. If any portion of the product has to be stacked it is is so much more per ton for expenses. I have just allowed for the ordinary men working the mill.

7681. do you mind putting that return in? — No. It is only a rough copy.