Wheat (2)

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7682. We have here a report of the Price Fixing Commission of the Commonwealth dated 9th February, Melbourne, and you will notice the general average throughout Australia shows a miller's margin of £1 8s. 10d. Do you think that is a fair conclusion to arrive as an average? — As I have said before, the variation is so great between the small mill and the big mill. For instance, the cheapest mill to run is a 40-sack mill; the next is a 25-sack mill. By sacks I mean 200-lb. bags. 7683. That is the average big and small? — It is hard to estimate unless you know the percentage of big and small mills. 7684. Have you any other mills of which you have worked out the cost similar to the half-ton mill? — Yes. 7685. Will you put them all in for the information of the Commission? — I do not think you will understand them. 7686. You can read them out first? — There is the ton mill — these are based on a low minimum on f.a.q. wheat. 7687. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: On full shifts? — Full time without a break. The difference between any mill working half-time and full time, the expenses are greater working half-time by 25 per cent. A ton mill works out at 8d. per ton. A two-ton mill would be roughly about 15s. 6d.; a four-ton mill 15s. There is no allowance made for the double handling of any stack. It is simply milling, receiving anf delivering from trucks to trucks on f.a.q. wheat. 7688. The millers have to do that? — The miller always stacks his local flour, at least from two to three, four or five months, and a great percentage of the offal is stacked. 7689. Does the miller pay for the stacking out of the gristing charges? — The miller has to stand the stacking up to one month. 7690. But I mean the handling charges for stacking? — He stacks a month's requirements of wheat and a month's products from the mill, and he is allowed 1d. per ton per week for handling and storing over and above that amount. 7691. So, being paid extra for that, it would not come into your calculations at all? — No. My figures do not include that nor breakages and stoppages. Some mills have an engineer and a millwright on the premises for repairs, instead of having to stop the mill and wait. 7692. That would be but a small amount per ton? — Yes, on a four-ton mill it would mean about one penny. 7693. By Mr. HARRISON: What was it you said in regard to the per ton per week for handling and storage? — The Scheme allows the miller 1d. per ton per week for storage and handling of any products that are stacked in excess of a month's requirements of wheat and a month's products. 7694. By the CHAIRMAN: Mr. Ockerby says that he is receiving altogether £2 for gristing. If we take 7s. 6d. off for bags it leaves £1 12s. 6d. Do you consider that a fair price? — There is commission included in the Cottesloe mill. They do a lot of local trade. Some mills are doing practically no local trade, and they merely get the gristing charge. 7695. Which, with bags, works out approximately 35s. 6d.? — Yes, 28s. 9d. for gristing and 7s. 6d. for bags. I have not included bags in my estimate. 7696. How many mills are turning out only half a ton per hour? — We call the following mills half-ton mills-Scaddan & Quigley's was a half-ton mill till three months ago. They are doing 11/150ths now. Pingelly also has been enlarged. The half-ton mills are Wagin, Geraldton, Bunbury and Toodyay. 7697. But the last two are not gristing? — Not under this agreement. 7698. There are only four mills the half-ton rate? — Yes, since East Perth was enlarged. 7699. You say that in a half-ton mill the cost would be approximately £1. 6s 9d., except the allowances you make. Do you think that 6s. 3d. per ton would more than meet the whole cost above what you have allowed for? — It would not be far out. 7700. In the offer made to the millers, Kellerberrin, Narrogin, Pingelly, Wagin, Geraldton, and East Perth are fixed on the one basis. What is the output of Kellerberrin and Narrogin? — Kellerberrin, working full time without a stop for 12 months, would turn out 6,300 tons. 7701. What size is the mill? — She is under a ton per hour, 21 tons in 24 hours. Narrogin is about two thirds of a ton. 7702. So if 33s. is a fair price for a half-ton mill, it would be excessive for those mills running near a ton? — Yes. 7703. Would you classify all those mills I have referred to in one class? — I worked them out in four classes. 7704. They are here worked out in three classes? — I put them into four, as follows: — 1, Cottesloe, Guildford, Northam; 2, Perth, York, and Katanning; 3, Kellerberrin and East Perth; 4, Wagin, Pingelly, Narrogin, and Geraldton. They run approximately half-ton, one ton, two tons, and four tons. 7705. By Mr. BROWN: Were you consulted by the Advisory Board in regard to fixing the classes or groups of mills? — Mr. Keys spoke to me about it but not the Advisory Board. 7706. Did you give him these four classes? — Yes, as worked out here. 7707. Are you the Chief Inspector of the flour mills for the Scheme? — Yes. 7708. Are there any sub-inspectors? — There are none on the practical work. 7709. The Scheme rely on your inspection of the mills? — Yes, on the practical part. 7710. How often do you visit each mill in the course of a month? — I may go to one particular mill twice in a month. 7711. Do you visit each mill once in a month? — Not in all cases. I may go to a mill three or four times in a month. I inspect every mill. 7712. Who checks the output and the milling work other than you? — The audit department of the Scheme check all the milling returns submitted by the millers. 7713. Does anyone besides yourself check the quality of the flour, bran, and pollard? — No. 7714. There are some months in which a mill goes along without the quality being checked? — It may happen so. 7715. Have you had experience a miller within and without the State? — Both in Victoria and in Western Australia. 7716. Were you managing a mill in Western Australia? — Yes. 7717. As a miller? — I was managing the Cottesloe and Northam mills. 7718. Are the milling conditions different in this State from those in Victoria? — Yes. 7719. What is the difference? — One noticeable feature was that we could not get some of the men to do the same work they were doing in the Eastern States. When I left the Eastern States we were paying packermen who could take off 30 bags each 36s. a week. At present some of the men get £3 2s. a week for doing less work. 7720. When were you last managing a mill? — In 1909. 7721. Have any material alterations taking place since then? — There is a certain increase in salary for the workmen and an increase in the handling charges. 7722. By the CHAIRMAN: The wages are pretty low now. There are very few getting more than 8s. 6d. or 9s. a day? — I know there is an increase, but a small one. 7723. The salaries are not high? — No. 7724. By Mr. BROWN: Is the millers' employees award a Federal matter? — I understand it is a State matter. 7725. Do you know how the award compares with the award in the Eastern States? — I have not made a comparison of recent years. 7726. With regard to the figures dealing with waste on the sheet before you, can you offer any explanation? — It is a very wide question. The figures are as nearly correct as possible. The returns are not a sufficient guide to make the estimate which is here. Some of the mills with the same quality of wheat can put the wheat through twice and get different percentages of waste. It only means a little more wind behind the wheat to get more waste. 7727. If the policy of the Scheme in the future was only to grist certain qualities of wheat, would you consider that these mills should have an equal share in it and that this would be of benefit to the Scheme? —