the wheat were carried in bulk? — Unless you built the sides up higher.

7788. But that would mean added expense?—Yes. At Fremantle we tested under the shifting boards and without the shifting boards. The result was very much better with shifting boards. By putting another plank on your open stock I think you could get 100 per cent. carrying capacity and that only at small expense.

7789. By Mr HARRISON: What would be the cost per truck?—I cannot say. That could be furnished by the Chief Mechanical Engineer.

7790. By Mr BROWN: The grade was practically level where your test was made?—Yes.

7791. You have no idea how the wheat would carry on steep grades?—No, we have not had any test in transit, but from what I saw of the movement of the wheat in the shunting test, I feel certain that there would be no greater movement in transit.

7792. Would much expense be entailed in putting in wheat proof floors and sides on your existing stock?—It would be expensive, but I cannot give any estimate of the cost. I think the Chief Mechanical Engineer has the figures.

7793. In wet weather bulk wheat in open trucks would be more seriously damaged than if it were in bags?—Certainly. It has been suggested that the open wagons for wheat should be equipped with a ridge pole to carry a sheet which would protect the wheat from rain or smut in transit.

7794. Have you sufficient railway stock to shift the coming harvest, say, 10 million bushels, in three months?—Yes, provided we had the power. We cannot get material for repairs, and I understand that some engines are being dismantled in order to equip others in traffic. Under normal conditions we could comfortably handle 10 million bushels in three months. Even under present conditions, if the loading were restricted to, say, 1,600 tons per day, we could lift 7,595,960 million bushels in 20 weeks, 11,393,870 bushels in 39 weeks. To do this the loading would require to be properly distributed, and the dual control abolished. Last year they were handling from 160 to 180 trucks per day at Spencer's Brook alone, but when the strike intervened it was almost impossible to get sufficient labour, with the result that we had a huge accumulation. We endeavoured to stop loading at unattended sidings, but whenever the farmer saw an empty wagon he put his wheat on it. We had to approach the fertiliser people to help us work the shipping. At one time we 2,000 trucks of wheat loaded, and seeing that our total number of trucks inclusive is only 10,000, it came within the bounds of possibility that we would stop the ships unless we relieved the wagons. That arose through the dual control, one firm loading the wheat and another discharging it. The person discharging should have the right to say what he can handle and issue instructions to the loading gang accordingly. This would be economical all round and there would never be any accumulation, nor would there be any demurrage. Under favourable conditions we could lift 63,633 bushels per day or 379,798 bushels per week. Thus we could lift 7½ million bushels in 20 weeks, or 15 million bushels in 30 weeks. Starting on the 1st December we could finish the whole lot by the end of May. The Commissioner desires that that arrangement should be made, if possible, in the handling of the forthcoming harvest.

7795. By the CHAIRMAN: That is to say, that the man who loads the trucks should have the right to discharge them?—Yes.

7796. I notice that the amount put down in the report on the handling of 5,000,000 bushels for rolling stock is estimated at £100,000?—That is evidently correct.

7797. I suppose that is the report you relied on for handling the small amount of wheat?—I had nothing to do with working up our actual costs in this respect. The figures given, however, can be relied upon.

7798. They were worked out on the information received by the Commissioner at the time of the handling of the 5,000,000 bushels of wheat?▬Yes.

7799. By Mr HARRISON: Did you say there would be more damage to wheat in an open truck than to bagged wheat in the even of rain? — Yes, unless it was sheeted. The whole of the surface would practically be exposed to the weather, and in the event of heavy rain the rain would go through the trucks. In the case of bagged wheat the moment it gets wet the water is turned off.

7800. Are you trucks water-tight? — They are not built for carrying water.

7801. We have found in the field the rain will not go far into loose wheat? — That may be so. I have seen second-hand bags which have been out in heavy weather, and the water has run right through them and through the bottom of the wagon.

7802. The damage is generally caused where two bags cut each other? — That is so.

7803. The figures you have given regarding transit from receiving centres to the depots would be made up on maximum lines? — It is simply the ordinary working test. I think we suggested that we should arrange with the wheat people to load 10 open trucks of bulk wheat and run them down on an ordinary goods train and put one or two men on to follow it right through and watch the movement continuously. We did not get as far as to have a working test under these conditions.

7804. Is there any chance of getting covers for the coming season's wheat? — Yes, if we get the canvas which has been indented for. Failing that we cannot do it. I understand to-day that we are bringing down shipments of flour for export without sheets. We cannot get the material for love or money.

7805. Has the department considered the use of a lighter quality of sheeting for wheat? — I do not know what has been done in that respect. The Chief Mechanical Engineer manufactures the sheets and the Controller of Stores supplies the material. Usually the quote is submitted to me, but I do not remember seeing any quote for a lighter material.

7806. Would you be surprised to learn that a visitor who is in the wheat business, when in this state said that what surprised him most was the lack of covering on the railway trucks while in transit? —I would not be surprised. Prior to the war we did not cover wheat, and our losses were small, if any. When the 1913-14 harvest of 18 million bushels was shifted we completed it about the middle of April and did not use a sheet and had no complaints at all. We had some heavy rains during March and April.

7807. If damp wheat is left to lie, that is the time when the damage occurs?—My experience is that if a rake of trucks passes through a heavy thunderstorm, the agent has usually asked us to let it stand by and dry, and the wheat has turned out all right. I suppose the stuff in those days was never examined, and went straight into the ship, and may have deteriorated considerably before reaching its destination.

7808. You have seen the recommendation of the Board and the interim reports on stocks at the receiving centres of 20,000 bags. Would that assist the Railway Department much where there are suitable railway sites, as an alternative to sending to the depot in the first instance?—I do not think so. The idea of establishing depots is better, and will not unduly cramp the Railway Department, provided some little discretion is used by the farmers in loading their wheat forward.

7809. I have heard that the cost of lengthening sidings in the country districts and of putting in new sidings would be a costly matter. Have you any idea what the cost would be?—No. I think it would be considerable owing to the expense of material just now.

7810. By the CHAIRMAN: Have you done anything with regard to weevil in the trucks?—No. I understand that the Public Works Department and the Government Entomologist are now at work in getting a scheme ready. The Public Works scheme is to destroy the weevil by heat at a temperature of 140 degrees, and the idea of the Entomologist is to treat the trucks with a poisonous substance manufactured by one of the chemists.

7811. How would you get the trucks into the chamber for heating?—The only thing to do is to build a chamber and make it air tight, and when the trucks are inside and the door is closed inject the necessary amount of heat. It is said that three minutes of this temperature is sufficient to kill the weevil.

7812. Every time the doors are opened the heat will go out?—There is bound to be a considerable loss of heat each time the doors are opened.

7813. By Mr. HARRISON: Do you not think that a dip sloping in the way a sheep dip does, through which