7838. By the CHAIRMAN: You wrote to Mr. Ockerby — It has been our intention to send some wheat from Bruce Rock to enable this mill to keep going after that date, but in view of Mr. Ockerby's decision we are arranging to divert the Bruce Rock wheat elsewhere. The position then so far as your Kellerberrin mill is concerned is that we will only have last season's wheat now stacked at Kellerberrin to sell to you. Is the Bruce Rock wheat badly damaged by weevil? — Not to any great extent. 7839. Wheat of that description would have to come from near Kellerberrin before it could get to the depôt? — But I would not send that wheat to a depot, I would send it to a mill. 7840. It would have to pass through Kellerberrin? — It would go down the York-Quairading line, unless the railways hauled it the other way to suit themselves. 7841. With regard to the flour percentages, so far as we can gather from the evidence, no special care has been taken to see that the mills turn out their percentage of flour in accordance with the quantity of wheat they have gristed, and you have no check? — The only check would be to have a man at each mill all the time. 7842. Some of the mills are not visited more than once a month? — The difficulty in regard to preparing a table like the one you have is that you cannot say exactly what quality of wheat the mill has had. 7843. Is it not possible, unless a close scrutiny is kept, that the scheme is likely to lose considerably? — Of course, I say that they are losing on the whole agreement. Some small mills cannot get as much extraction as the other mills. We have spent some time in trying to bring about an improvement in the extraction at the smaller mills. 7844. Have you had any further communication with the millers? — Yes. On the 15th October the chairman of the Flourmillers' Association wrote stating that members were to be called together at an early date with a view of an amicable arrangement being arrived at. I understand they are meeting next Tuesday, but I doubt whether an amicable arrangement will be arrived at, because one miller was candid enough to tell me that they would fight together, and that if any man broke away they would drive him out of the trade. 7845. I suppose you have noticed that the millers offered to reduce the gristing rate by a halfpenny? — Yes. 7846. Did you notice that Mr. Ockerby in his evidence said that he was never offered sixpence? — Not this year. He probably would accept sixpence. 7847. You are taking care that if a new contract is entered into, stock in the mills will be in such a position that you will be able to know how to start under the new contract? — We are doing our best.We have asked all the mills to stack separately all the wheat that might come along and to have records kept, and we have asked them, with regards to their stocks of offal, to see that they are stacked in such a manner as to enable us to count easily. The mills that do not want to assist us will probably give us trouble. 7848. By Mr. BROWN: Has the advisory Board considered the policy to be adopted for the disposal of the 1917-18 wheat? — It would depend on the circumstances and the particular time. 7849. The gristing order from the Imperial Government is about completed? — It will run a few months yet. 7850. Has the Board considered any policy of continuing milling after that time expires? — I have no doubt that if the Board has a reasonable arrangement with the mills that rather than take a risk with the wheat they would convert it into flour. 7851. You stated that the termination would take place on seven days' notice on either side; was that in the agreement? — One reason for making the notice so short was that the war might end suddenly and shipping might become free, in which case it would pay us better to ship our wheat. 7852. In connection with the three groups of mills, how were they arrived at? — They were taken on their relative outputs. 7853. Was there any consultation with the mill inspector? — I discussed it with the officials at various times. 7854. He gave evidence and said that he recommended four groups; do you know anything about that? — I cannot say offhand. He may have told me that he thought Kellerberrin or one of the other mills should be put in a different group. 7855. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: You say that the gristing arrangements were a source of loss to the Scheme; why are you negotiating with the millers for future gristing? — Because it is necessary to a certain extent to save the wheat from weevil. It is a loss in this respect, that we have to pay the mills more to-day for gristing than we would if we sold them the wheat. 7856. Why not sell them the wheat? — Mr. Ockerby says he is going to buy our wheat. 7857. Would you prefer to enter into that arrangement? — I would not say that I would with all the millers.It might pay me to have some of the millers on a gristing basis. 7858. The gristing arrangement was entered into to save the wheat from weevil; it was a case of saving in one direction and losing in another. Still it is not quite accurate to say that the Scheme is loosing money by the gristing arrangement? — Perhaps not, technically. 7859. Have you had any experience of milling operations? — None at all. 7860. With whom were you before you joined Dreyfus & Co. in this state? — I came here from Adelaide, where I was with Dreyfus & Co. for four and a-half years. I was managing their business there. 7861. In negotiating with the millers, I take it you would have been largely guided by the advice of those on your staff who had milling experience? — Yes, and from evidence I have read. Mr Sibbald placed it on record that the Northam mill could grist at 20s. a ton. I read evidence taken before the South Australian Commission that a small miller could pay all his charges out of 22s. 6d. a ton.Mr. Connor of the Adelaide Milling Co. stated he was willing to mill at 25s. 6d. plus a commission on sale of offal. Mr Thomas, proprietor of the Northam mill, made an arrangement with the South Australian Government to grist whatever wheat they gave him at about 30s. a ton. All this was taken into consideration when framing the estimates. Further than that, we have on our staff a couple of men who have been connected with the running of mills, and we also have two men who were employed mill offices, and who know something about milling costs.Working up all that evidence, I was able to arrive at, roughly, what the mills could grist for. 7862. In fixing the differential charges, you were actuated by a desire to make all millers come in on the same basis? — No. I tried to even it up a bit. The smaller mill is offered 4s. more than the large mill. Some of the small mills cannot produce flour within 10s. per ton of the larger mills, and I wanted to give them reasonable terms, without giving the the large mills an undue profit. 7863. You consider that the payment per ton of flour is an advantage over payment per bushel of wheat? — Yes, from the scheme's point of view. 7864. It will ensure better returns from the mills? — Yes. At the present time we are paying on the bushels that go through. The more bushels a mill takes the more commission they make.If we pay on the flour ton it will tend in some cases to improve the percentage of extraction. It also implies book-keeping to a great extent. 7865. By Mr. HARRISON: Do you consider the next season's gristing will be on a better quality wheat than in the past? — Generally speaking, no. 7866. Then you do not think the bags will be in better condition than in the past? — Yes. 7867. Have you taken that into consideration in the new agreement? — Yes. 7868. Do you think 7s. 6d. a ton fair? — One or two mills may not have made much out of 7s. 6d.,but one or two mills have made something. 7869. There is likely to be some commission next season in reference to some mills? — We are offering them a rate of so much per flour ton for all they produce, with a small commission and the free sale of offal and no commission on the sale of local flour. 7870. By the CHAIRMAN: There is a difference in the price of gristing at the various mills this year? — No, all are getting 7d.