7871. As far as the result of the Scheme is concerned, there is a difference ?—We pay 7d. a bushel. On that basis we are paying some mills more than others per flour ton. 7872. Is it not the Scheme's place to see that the best possible return should be got by the Scheme, thereby increasing the amount of money due to the farmers? — Not necessarily the best return. On Imperial orders we have a set percentage, that is, 42lbs. of flour to the bushel. If we take out more than 42lbs., we would hardly be playing the game to the Imperial Government. 7873. Most of them come under that? — Under 42 lbs., yes. 7874. All except two? — Practically they are all under it. Ockerby's high percentage is on account of his greater extraction for export orders. 7875. What about Perth? — There are one or two mills with a high percentage. 7876. Supposing I put in a small mill or buy a small mill with inferior plant, and Mr. Allen and Mr. Brown expend capital and put up a large mill with up-to-date plant, what difference does it make to you as long as you get return? — I do not catch the purport of your question. 7877. Suppose I have a small mill with inferior plant, and Mr. Allen and Mr. Brown put up a mill with up-to-date plant, spending more money in doing so, in regard to payments made, what difference does it make to you so long as you get your return? — If you get your returns out of an inferior plant it would not make any difference. 7878. It is impossible to do that, therefore, you are paying an increased price? — I do not think the small mills have inferior plants to the large mills. 7879. The returns are 37,38, and 39, while the others give 40, 41, 42. You are getting a greater return as far as flour is concerned, at the same time you pay them less for gristing? — On a per bushels basis. 7880. On a ton basis you are paying them on a on of flour basis, a reduced price to gristing, but the return is higher than you are getting from the lower mills ?—If the small mills cannot give us the extraction that the larger mills give us, we are losing on our new agreement. The mills have to guarantee that they will get 42lbs., and if they cannot do that they have to say so. 7881. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN : That is f.a.q.? — Yes. 7882. The small mills get as good a percentage? — Yes. 7883. By the CHAIRMAN : I want to get it that it does not concern the Scheme as far as the price charged ; in the case I cite Mr. Allen and Mr. Brown should not be penalised because they have up to date machinery, and because I have inferior machinery why should I be penalised ?—You are not if your machinery can extract the same flour as theirs. Take Ockerby's mill, which is the third largest in the State. Mr. Ockerby has just purchased a second-hand plant in New South Wales, and I do not say he will not get the same extraction from that as from his present mill. 7884. If the percentage is not up to 42 lbs. in the future these mills will give up gristing or have a reduced price? — That is so. I am of opinion that some of the small mills this season might have got better returns if they had not been on a per bushels basis of payment. Their anxiety was to get as many bushels through the mill as possible. 7885. You are aware Mr. Sibbald based the price on 50 bushels to the ton ? — That is just a round calculation he made. 7886. That is the Commonwealth Price Fixing Commission statement (handed to witness)? — That does not apply to this State. 7887. To all Australia? — The price does not ; we do not get £11 2s. 6d. for flour. 7888. That is the average for all Australia ? —That is taking the large and small mills. To get the average some may produce flour for £1 per ton and some 35s. Mr. Ockerby says it costs him 29s. to mill flour. 7889. He said 29s. 6d. yesterday ? — Personally I doubt it very much as far as the Cottesloe mill is concerned. 7890. You have been making a test with weevil in regard to railway trucks? — Mr. Pearce is the engineer adviser of the board and he is doing something in conjunction with Mr. Lord, but so far I have not been officially advised. 7891. You have not heard that Mr. Newman is getting something out? — I heard Mr. Newman had something. I think it was brought up at a board meeting. 7892. I have heard, but not officially, it is very effective and can be done at a much cheaper rate? — Mr. Newman's idea is to dip the railway trucks. 7893.Spraying? — I doubt if it will be effective. 7894. I heard it was very effective? — As far as an ordinary railway truck is concerned it has only to stand five minutes in the sum on a day like this and every weevil will die without spraying. Where the weevil gets secreted is under the carriage, and I do not know how you could spray the weevils even if the Railway Department would let you. 7895. Do you think it advisable, for a test, to drop the bulk storage for a while and put up a shed of malthoid as they have done in South Australia? — When in South Australia I had a look at that shed. It is about as air-tight as you could make it. 7896. Do you not think it advisable to build a small shed for a test; it would only take two or three days. Put up a room about the size of this? —

We could run up a small place quickly and put in very weevily wheat and test it and see how it comes out. We could test it with CO2.

7897. That would be a big saving? — We could have one shed and shift the wheat to it after one treatment, or we could build a shed over stacks and as they were pulled down, shift it, but I do not think the, malthoid would stand the handling unless it was built on a frame. 7898. You could build a room as a test ? — We could do that and see what the result is. 7899. You could not make it air-tight with iron? — With iron roof we might try it at the depots. The CO2 is heavier than air. 7900. You have the air in all the time? — Yes. 7901. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN : A certain percentage rises? — Yes. 7902. By the CHAIRMAN: If you had a malthoid room you could try? — It would be a better test than with an iron roof. 7903. It would not cost much either ? — It would pay the Scheme to give it a test. 7904. We have sent to South Australia, also to Victoria and New South Wales to get all particulars about the matter there, and when we get the information it might save the Scheme from sending officers over. Has Mr. Newman spent much time with your department? — He was in collaboration with the Chief Inspector as to some suitable means of cleaning up country sites, but as far as I see up to date the recommendations now put forward are recommendations which originated from myself. 7905. Have you been asked by the Scheme to quote for the handling of this year's harvest? — No. 7906. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: What were those recommendations which you say have been advanced for the treatment of infected country sites?

— It was a question of whether to soak the dunnage in weevil specific in a bath or to boil the dunnage in large troughs of boiling water. Probably the boiling water would be more effective than the weevil specific, but at a country siding it would be very difficult to carry it out, while soaking the dunnage in the bath would be a slow, tedious process. I suggested that on sites requiring cleaning, any old bags might be gathered up and stacked on the site together with grass cut from around the site and the whole lot burned. Afterwards the site should be carefully cleaned down and soaked with weevil specific.

7907. What specific is that? — A preparation of arsenic made by Mr. Newman's brother. 7908. By the CHAIRMAN: The same as was used at Albany, where we saw the weevils crawling all over it when it had dried? — Mr. Newman says it effectively kills the weevils. I suggested that when the site had been soaked in specific, the specific should be poured over all the dunnage on the site, which should afterwards be allowed to remain for a day or two in the sun and then turned over for the other side to be treated. All the time the liquid would be running off the dunnage down into the site. If the specific is any good at all this should get over the difficulty.