8032. It will restrict their output?—Personally, I am of opinion that the flour ton basis is a wrong one on which to pay the miller.

8033. But that has been profitable to the Scheme?—I question it.

8034. The Scheme fixes its basis on the quality of the wheat you are likely to receive?—They tell us we will get better wheat.

8035. That means you will get better quality of bags?—Yes. Under the new agreement there is no question of bags. We get 31s. per ton and that includes bags and everything.

8036. By the CHAIRMAN: Your average from the 3rd November to 31st August was 42.15?—Yes.

8037. Is there any commission in the new agreement?—So far it is 2s. per ton of offal sold by the miller, but no commission is allowed in respect to Singapore shipments.

8038. By Mr. BROWN: In regard to the three prices offered by the Scheme, has the Scheme made any arrangements as to how many bushels they expect you to mill a ton of flour?—The Scheme wants an average of 42 pounds to the bushel, so that the miller will only use 47.6 bushels to make a ton of flour. There is one thing I desire to point out to the Commission in regard to evidence given by former witness wherein it was stated that the wages paid to mill hands averages from 8s. 6d. to 9s. per day. The minimum rate of wages fixed by the Federal Award is 10s. Engineers 12s., Millers, 12s. 4d., and Packermen, 10s. 4d.

8039. By the CHAIRMAN: I think you are under a misapprehension. I was quoting from the Agreement made under the State Arbitration Act?—That agreement is out of date, and the Federal Award now applies.

8039A. Here is a copy of the Award, dated 1916?—I did not think it was of so recent date, but the Federal Award now applies.

8040. By Mr. BROWN: Will the agreement now being entered into the Scheme be cheaper, equal or worse for the miller than the present agreement expiring on the 3rd November next?—It will be about 4s. 6d. per ton lower than the present rate.

8041. Has the Scheme made arrangements to have a final clean up on the 3rd November?—Yes, or within two or three days of that date. We had a complete stock-taking and clean-up on the 8th June last, when we closed our mill for alterations. Our waste was only ¼lb. per bushel, of which the Scheme were advised. You cannot get a "cleanup" unless the mill is closed, but that does not mean a loss of time to the wages man as they are paid on a weekly basis. It means a loss to the mill.

8042. By Mr. HARRISON: It is the usual practice to have an overhaul annually, during which time the men are employed in some other portion of the mill?—Yes.

8043. By Mr. BROWN: Under the new agreement millers have to provide the whole of the bags?—Yes.

8044. Has any arrangement has been made in regard to dockage?—No.

8045. By Mr. HARRISON: It will mean that if there is any falling off in the percentage of gristing the Scheme officials will be responsible on account of the class of wheat that is sent to the mills?—Yes. If they send very badly weevilled wheat no miller can get 42 pounds to the bushel.

8046. By the CHAIRMAN: You are aware that it is propose to erect in this State and other parts of Australia large bins for the storage of wheat?—Yes.

8047. Do you think, as a miller, that wheat so stored, will lower the quality of the flour produced from such wheat?—No. I think it will improve it, provided it is properly graded and cared for.

8048. Do you think this can be done by the person who puts wheat into the silo?—They should never put wheat into a silo unless it is first graded.

8049. Then you do not agree with the large storage bins?—No, you should have a nest of bins for grading the wheat.

8050. By Mr. HARRISON: That would necessitate a separating plant?—you cannot put up large storage bins unless you have separators.

8051. By the CHAIRMAN: The system proposed in this State is to build large single storage bins?—I consider it is wrong.

8052. You showed us at your mills some samples of wheat which had been obtained from different districts, some of which had gone quite black. Would not wheat of that kind sweat in large storage bins and be liable to affect the whole lot?—In my opinion you would never get it out of the silos. Different kinds of wheat grown in various districts contain varying percentages of moisture. Take, for instance, below Pingelly, where you get a very soft wheat, in my opinion it would be dangerous to stock it loose in big bins owing to the possibility of it spontaneously generating heat. If you have one large bin you want another bin of the same capacity to turn your wheat over again, and so prevent this possibility.

8053. It would be detrimental to the wheat and to the disadvantage of the farmer to store the wheat in large single bins?—From my practical experience and from what I have read of wheat storage in large places in England I am of opinion that you must make provision so that the bins can be emptied and the wheat turned over.

8054-5. By Mr. ALLEN: You have never heard of one silo without a nest of bins?—No.

8056. By Mr. HARRISON: It would depend upon the period the wheat has to remain in the silo. How often do you consider it would be necessary to turn the wheat over?—A great deal depends upon the condition of the wheat. If you had wheat from down as far as Brookton you could safely store it three or four months, but if you got it from some of the other Great Southern Districts you might have to turn it over every month.

8057. By the CHAIRMAN: You have erected jarrah silos at your mills?—Yes and they are entirely satisfactory.

8058. Do you find any large increase for insurance?—No.

8059. What was the approximate cost of these silos?—About £2,000, which including a lot of extra work, such as long conveyors, etc. The capacity is about 8,000 bags and we have six bins.

8060. By Mr. ALLEN: That does not include the cost of cleaning machines?—Yes, it includes one cleaning machine.

8061. By the CHAIRMAN: So that you would absolutely condemn one independent silo holding 40,000 bushels of wheat?—I would not dream of it. We have had experience of wheat becoming heated in our small bins and we have had to take it out of the silo before it became one solid mass.

8062. Do you not think the rate of insurance is prejudicial to the use of jarrah silos. No. I might say that we regard them as entirely satisfactory and intend putting up another 24 bins.

8063. Do you think that the silos will protect the wheat from weevil?—Yes, provided the wheat is clean when it is stored.

8064. If the egg of the weevil is in the grain when it is stored, it will develop in the bin?—Yes.

8065. Do you think that if weevil was found in the wheat that was put into the silo that by taking the grain out of the bottom and putting it in again at the top of the bin the wheat would be cleared of weevil?—I do not think it could be done because the wheat at the top comes out first. It is a case of "the last in is the first out."

8066. So that by that process the weevil would be spread throughout the whole of the bin?—Yes.

(The witness retired).

The Commission adjourned.