FRIDAY, 25TH OCTOBER, 1918

(At Perth.) —— Present:

Hon. W.C. Angwin M.L.A., Chairman Hon. J.F. Allen, M.L.C. S.M. Brown, Esq., M.L.A.

WILLIAM FREDERIC SAYER, K.C., Solicitor General, further examined.

8067. By the CHAIRMAN: The Commission desires your opinion in regard to certain clauses of the agreement entered into by the Government with the Westralian Farmers, Ltd., for the handling of the wheat harvest, 1918-19. You will notice that Clause 3 Subclause (c) reads: "Stacking, protecting, caretaking and unstacking at country sidings other than wheat depots in a manner provided by the Minister from time to time, stacking sites and dunnage to be provided by the Minister or at his expense with his approval." Under that clause stacking sites and dunnage are to be provided by the Minister. Does it include anything else?— No. 8068. Clause 11 (c). You will notice that in this clause it is provided that for the work of roofing, screening, protecting and caretaking to the end of May, 1919, such stacks as may be nominated by the Minister, the agent is to receive ¼d.per bushel. Does that include material for roofing?— There is nothing in the agreement that roofing is to be provided by the Government. On the contrary in Clause 3 (c) all that the Government is required to provide are sites and dunnage. Under Clause 11 the agent is to receive ¼d. per per bushel for the work of roofing, screening, protecting and caretaking to the end of May, 1919, such stacks as may be "nominated" by the Minister. In the absence of anything to the contrary it seems to me that the agent will have to provide the material. 8069. Would it not have been better instead of saying, "stacks as may be nominated by the Minister" to have inserted a clause "on the quantity of wheat in such stacks"?— That would certainly have made the clause much clearer. but I do not think that there is any doubt that the ¼d. per bushel only extends to the quantity of wheat as is contained in the stacks. 8069A. We have it in evidence that the acquiring Agent was paid ⅛d. per bushel last year for checking of samples and weights at depots, the work however, was not carried out by the Agent. The Scheme did the work, so it is necessary to make sure that this ¼d. per bushel for roofing does not include all wheat acquired but only the wheat in the stack so roofed?— If the agent was paid for work not performed it was not in accordance with the last agreement, as it reads "for actual checking, etc." The word "actual" is essential, and if the work was not actually done it should not be paid for. 8070. You did not have the agreement a sufficient length of time to recommend or otherwise, it being signed?— It was brought down to me shortly before a Cabinet meeting, and the old print, with the amendments attached, was taken. away by Mr. Hall, leaving in my hands a "fair copy" but before I had an opportunity of perusing the copy it was sent for, so I had no opportunity of critically examining it. 8071. You would hardly expect an agreement of this kind to be sent to you on the morning of the presenting it to Cabinet?— It was absolutely impossible for me to deal with it on the spot as the time was too limited. 8072. We find that in connection with certain contracts entered into by the Scheme last year bonds were not put up until some considerable time after the signing of the agreement by the agents. Should not the Scheme officials see that the bonds are arranged immediately?— Yes. I do not think the agents have any justification for delaying the bonds because the agreements have not been signed by the Minister. 8073. By the Hon. F. J. ALLEN: Where an alteration of an agreement is made by Parliament after it has been entered into, would that prevent the contractor from receiving the remuneration provided for in such agreement?— No. If a contractor enters into an agreement subject to approval by Parliament he would be bound by such modification as Parliament might think fit to make if he continued the agreement. 8074. If the work had been actually executed prior to Parliamentary sanction, then any variation would be retrospective?— I think so, because the agreement was entered into conditionally upon Parliament approving of it.

(The witness retired.)

The Commission adjourned.

TUESDAY, 29TH OCTOBER, 1918

(At Perth.) —— Present: Hon. W. C. Angwin, M.L.A., Chairman. Hon. J. F. Allen, M.L.C. S.M. Brown, Esq., M.L.A. T. H. Harrison, Esq., M.L.A. —— EDWARD SHOTTON HUME, Chief Mechanical Engineer, sworn and examined.

8075. By the CHAIRMAN: The inquiries we are making embrace bulk handling and storage. I believe your department made some investigations with regard to the cost that would be involved in altering the rolling stock so as to carry wheat in bulk. Will you let us have what information you can in that respect?— A great deal depends on how you intend to handle the wheat. The inquiries which I made were from Canada, where conveyors are employed. There are two methods of discharging the wheat, the underground hopper and by means of suction.

8076. The trucks would first have to be loaded by the farmers?— In Canada almost every siding is of such magnitude as to warrant having an elevator. The particular method of conveying the wheat from the sidings to the port is by means of covered vans and they are loaded through hatches in the roof.

8077. To do that here would mean considerable cost as far as rolling stock was concerned?— Yes, but we have suitable vans for that method; we we have about 307 bogies.

8078. How many trucks do you use now in the handling of wheat?— I would not be prepared to say. I know how many of each class of truck I have provided, but how many are engaged in the traffic is a matter for the traffic department.

8079. Would you be surprised to hear that Mr. Shillington told us that he had 2,000 trucks under load at one time?— I would not be surprised.

8080. Do you think the vans you have would meet any emergency that may arise?—Well, I do not know that it is necessary for Western Australia to have bulk handling. Of course, it may be considered impertinence on my part to say this, but I will tell you how it appeals to me, though I am only a railway man. Take New South Wales. They have in that State steel works and it is their policy to manufacture steel wagons. I suppose, in connection with the bulk handling of wheat, steel wagons have an advantage, possibly, over wood wagons. The policy of Western Australia should be to build wood wagons. We imported a number of steel wagons and the cost of the maintenance per annum of those wagons— they had wood floors and wood sides— was as follows:— 1910, £2 0s. 5d. each; 1913, £3 4s. 10d. ; 1917, £3 7s. 2d. The cost of the maintenance of trucks